Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Discuss NCAA hoops and player scouting for the NBA Draft from the college and international ranks.

Moderators: wallace044, rtn393, Irv, cru77jones

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby nazrmohamed » December 23, 2018, 11:49 pm

There's a player emerging right behind these 5 that could be better than Reddish, might be better suited to have an NBA impact than Ja, and fit is better than Bol.

Michael Porter Jr. Here was him vs the best defense in the country.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aXHhTpgIDNs
Grady- Mario is the KD of tanking. Fiz got worried that playing Jordan would help the Knicks win, so he has to make sure Mario gets plenty of minutes.
User avatar
nazrmohamed
 
Joined: December 16, 2004, 9:06 pm
Location: Rockland, Ny

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby BRIGGS » December 24, 2018, 12:41 am

From my viewpoint I’d move ha up to pick# 2
I don’t like bol bol being hurt so fast. His build might not sustain nba rigor
BRIGGS
 
Joined: October 4, 2017, 9:28 am

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby nazrmohamed » December 24, 2018, 8:06 am

I wouldn't pick Bol for other reasons, like the fact that I see Mitch as our C of the future and if not the KP at C fanbase can have thier wish. We're pretty set at C. But I wouldn't concern myself with his build. Most guys at 19 eventually gain the mass they need, even KP has slowly but surely been gaining muscle and it still hasn't stopped him from being impactful.
Grady- Mario is the KD of tanking. Fiz got worried that playing Jordan would help the Knicks win, so he has to make sure Mario gets plenty of minutes.
User avatar
nazrmohamed
 
Joined: December 16, 2004, 9:06 pm
Location: Rockland, Ny

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby Irv » December 25, 2018, 3:27 pm

Zion
Ja
RJ
Cam
Bol
User avatar
Irv
Administrator
 
Joined: February 8, 2003, 11:24 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby Irv » December 25, 2018, 3:28 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:There's a player emerging right behind these 5 that could be better than Reddish, might be better suited to have an NBA impact than Ja, and fit is better than Bol.

Michael Porter Jr. Here was him vs the best defense in the country.


Wrong Porter Jr. This one isn't expected to miss an entire season.
User avatar
Irv
Administrator
 
Joined: February 8, 2003, 11:24 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby nazrmohamed » December 25, 2018, 5:31 pm

Right Irv, Kevin Porter Jr
Grady- Mario is the KD of tanking. Fiz got worried that playing Jordan would help the Knicks win, so he has to make sure Mario gets plenty of minutes.
User avatar
nazrmohamed
 
Joined: December 16, 2004, 9:06 pm
Location: Rockland, Ny

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby dcapodic » December 30, 2018, 7:06 pm

Ok, I have to ask it....is Zion a "tweener" in the NBA? Yes, he is an unbelievable athlete but there are a lot of great athletes in the NBA. Admittedly, I have not seen Zion play a lot but when I have, he basically is just so much more athletically gifted than the opposition that he can just manhandle them. That stuff doesn't always carry over to the NBA. He is not really big enough to dominate based on size and his shot outside of the paint is just so-so at best, at least for the times I have seen him. So ya, I know he can work on that and develop it but does that concern anybody?

I really am asking because I have not seen enough of him to have a firm opinion yet. I am going to try and watch him more to see if I can answer my owns concerns but what do you think?!?
- Thanasis Antetokounmpo spelled backwards is Opmnuokotetna (which is Swahili for Hand Sanitizer). Mr. Glass, circa 2014
User avatar
dcapodic
 
Joined: February 4, 2007, 11:38 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby big_j_NY » December 30, 2018, 7:34 pm

Yeah Zion is a tweener, dcap.

Unfortunately, his inconsistent jumpshot range restricts him to the 4 FOR NOW........but his underrated ball-handling ability can allow him to play the 3 on most teams that can "mask" his poor shooting ability with shooters at other positions.
#EmbraceTheTankPERIOD

Hassan Whiteside wrote:I'm just tryin...tryin 2 really get my NBA 2K rating up
User avatar
big_j_NY
 
Joined: December 29, 2005, 11:47 pm
Location: Houston, TX.........Queens, NY born & raised

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby BRIGGS » December 31, 2018, 1:04 pm

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=56335

I wanted to take John Collins two years ago. After realizing the Knicks werent going to take him I voted to take Frank. But this always reminds me to take the BPA regardless of whove you got.
BRIGGS
 
Joined: October 4, 2017, 9:28 am

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby Irv » January 1, 2019, 3:08 pm

Zion gets comparisons to Larry Johnson and Charles Barkley as his ceiling and they were both technically tweeners as well.
User avatar
Irv
Administrator
 
Joined: February 8, 2003, 11:24 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby Nononsense » January 2, 2019, 2:28 am

Irv wrote:Zion gets comparisons to Larry Johnson and Charles Barkley as his ceiling and they were both technically tweeners as well.

That's very encouraging considering Zion projects to be a better defender than LJ & Barkley. Also encouraging is the idea that we're likely to get one of the five players in this thread at the rate and direction our current record is heading. Keep developing Knox, Mitchell Robinson, and Trier; bring back a healthy KP; draft well with a very high lottery pick in a top-heavy draft class this summer; and hopefully sign a worthy max contract star in free agency. We could really go from worst team in the NBA to being a lock for the playoffs and a dangerous dark horse to go deep in the east next season.
User avatar
Nononsense
 
Joined: June 23, 2005, 3:52 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby dcapodic » January 2, 2019, 12:06 pm

big_j_NY wrote:Yeah Zion is a tweener, dcap.

Unfortunately, his inconsistent jumpshot range restricts him to the 4 FOR NOW........but his underrated ball-handling ability can allow him to play the 3 on most teams that can "mask" his poor shooting ability with shooters at other positions.


Thx big_j....the positive part of his "tweener" ness is that in the league now, if you are just SO physically dominant you don't haev to be a great shooter to be able to score at will. Give me some latititude with this...but Lebron was not a great shooter when he cam into the league but was again, just so physically dominant that he got his points just from that and eventualy worked on his shot enough to force players to have to come up on him. That is probably the goal with any player of this skillset.

Irv mentioned LJ....he did the same when his back started up, he worked on his shot and made them respect that.

The softnest of the league now makes me a little more comfortable with a guy like Zion buuuuut there have been MANY players drafted high with great physical skills that never really made it. Again, I don't know enough about him to say for sure one way or the other. Let me see him through the end of the season and tourney and get more info :)
- Thanasis Antetokounmpo spelled backwards is Opmnuokotetna (which is Swahili for Hand Sanitizer). Mr. Glass, circa 2014
User avatar
dcapodic
 
Joined: February 4, 2007, 11:38 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby dcapodic » January 2, 2019, 12:14 pm

Irv wrote:Zion gets comparisons to Larry Johnson and Charles Barkley as his ceiling and they were both technically tweeners as well.


Interesting. I don't really see LJ in Zion (but again, I am working with limited knowledge). LJ was more of an undersized bigman that a tweener, if tha tmakes sense. When he played in college and was still healthy in the NBA, he had a great inside game, some physical some finesse. Zion to me looks like raw physical and tha tis the tentative part for me.

Make no mistake, he is gonna roar into the league. With his physcial assets there is no way he comes in and busts, he is just too physically gifted and coming into a tissue paper soft league. But, in this 3pt dominated, high octane league does taht develop and work over time.

Probably so, but I don't think it is as much a "sure thing" as it seems, at least not yet until i see more.
- Thanasis Antetokounmpo spelled backwards is Opmnuokotetna (which is Swahili for Hand Sanitizer). Mr. Glass, circa 2014
User avatar
dcapodic
 
Joined: February 4, 2007, 11:38 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby NewlyKnicked » January 3, 2019, 10:21 am

Not a big fan of comparison, but I read/heard someone mention Griffin for Zion... Not exact because of size, defense and playmaking at the same age, but an injury-free Griffin is an athletic beast as well so I'd put Blake in the chimera mix with Barkley and Draymond to get Zion...

Zion's build is so peculiar that it's hard to fit him in a specific role. I guess you'd want at first to just clear the space for him with as many shooters/cuters as possible considering his playmaking. Idt his shot will be much of a problem. Griffin, Simmons, Gordon, Westbrook... all of these players shoot pretty poorly but are athletic freaks and do at least pretty good in the modern NBA. Plus, his 71 FT% seems to indicate Zion is ahead of them
2017 NYKFP Mock Lottery Competition Champion
User avatar
NewlyKnicked
 
Joined: November 2, 2016, 12:08 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby Irv » January 3, 2019, 6:14 pm

dcapodic wrote:Interesting. I don't really see LJ in Zion (but again, I am working with limited knowledge). LJ was more of an undersized bigman that a tweener, if tha tmakes sense. When he played in college and was still healthy in the NBA, he had a great inside game, some physical some finesse. Zion to me looks like raw physical and tha tis the tentative part for me.

Make no mistake, he is gonna roar into the league. With his physcial assets there is no way he comes in and busts, he is just too physically gifted and coming into a tissue paper soft league. But, in this 3pt dominated, high octane league does taht develop and work over time.

Probably so, but I don't think it is as much a "sure thing" as it seems, at least not yet until i see more.


They are projections and not direct comparisons at the moment since I think LJ was better than Zion at the same age. I would gladly take that as a ceiling though. The ceiling projections for some of the other lottery picks in this year's draft are very uninspiring.

For his own good, like LJ and like Blake Griffin, Zion will want to develop an outside shooting game sooner than later because he won't be able to rely on just athleticism over his entire career if he wants to have a long one.
User avatar
Irv
Administrator
 
Joined: February 8, 2003, 11:24 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby dcapodic » January 9, 2019, 11:14 am

Irv wrote:They are projections and not direct comparisons at the moment since I think LJ was better than Zion at the same age. I would gladly take that as a ceiling though. The ceiling projections for some of the other lottery picks in this year's draft are very uninspiring.

For his own good, like LJ and like Blake Griffin, Zion will want to develop an outside shooting game sooner than later because he won't be able to rely on just athleticism over his entire career if he wants to have a long one.


For his own good, like LJ and like Blake Griffin, Zion will want to develop an outside shooting game sooner than later because he won't be able to rely on just athleticism over his entire career if he wants to have a long one.


This is really such an important factor in judging any player but specifficaly one whoe game is predicated on his ahtleticism. One of the reasons I like to see more of a player than I have of Zion is to try and judge where his head is at and what he is like from a personality standpoint. Does he look like he is all about winning....can I see things improve over a period of time....do I see different things from him when he goes up against different teams doing different things to him, etc.

I do like that Zion gets off his 3pt shot easily and effortlessly.


-diverting from Zion-

Same with Barrett. In fact, Barrett seems to hve a much better stroke than his stats show. It is interesting how guys are perceived or "sold"....Zion and Barrett are basicaly the same height it seems but Zion is listed on the Duke roster as almost 80 pounds heavier which seems silly to me. Yea, Zion is the bigger and more atheletic for sure but Barrett is much smoother and more polished. Neither one shoots well but Barrett looks the part more with his shot...which in dcapoidc terms means his stroke is smoother and he looks more comfortable facing the hoop.

No real great points here just adding to my observations as I see them play more. In general, the more I see these two specifically, the more I realize how talented they are.
- Thanasis Antetokounmpo spelled backwards is Opmnuokotetna (which is Swahili for Hand Sanitizer). Mr. Glass, circa 2014
User avatar
dcapodic
 
Joined: February 4, 2007, 11:38 pm

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby H20Knick » January 16, 2019, 10:36 am

guys, is it just me, or does RJ finish his drives in ways that are going to be ineffective at the NBA level. He loves to pick up his dribble early and pivot around in circles and fling something at the rim and this concerns me deeply. You're not going to score that way in the Association. I know Im supposed to keep telling myself "Harden, Harden, Harden" as a model of an NBA 2 who isn't a great athlete but scores in bunches, but Harden was also a 41% 3pt shooter as a freshman in college.

I will say that I was always infatuated with Luka and you could've had these same red flags with Luka, but idk. I watched the FSU game and I just got a little uneasy because I'd already emotionally pinned my hopes and dreams on RJ and Im becoming unconvinced. Yes, he puts down some gaudy stat lines, but lots of college player have done that and not been impact players in the NBA. I don't get the future "best player on a championship team" vibe from him right now.

someone talk me off the ledge please.
Get well, KD. :(

2018 NYKFP Mock Lottery Competition CHAMPION
2015 NYKFP Mock Lottery Competition CHAMPION
User avatar
H20Knick
 
Joined: August 11, 2004, 11:42 pm
Location: nova/dc metro

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby nazrmohamed » January 17, 2019, 8:18 pm

H20Knick wrote:guys, is it just me, or does RJ finish his drives in ways that are going to be ineffective at the NBA level. He loves to pick up his dribble early and pivot around in circles and fling something at the rim and this concerns me deeply. You're not going to score that way in the Association. I know Im supposed to keep telling myself "Harden, Harden, Harden" as a model of an NBA 2 who isn't a great athlete but scores in bunches, but Harden was also a 41% 3pt shooter as a freshman in college.

I will say that I was always infatuated with Luka and you could've had these same red flags with Luka, but idk. I watched the FSU game and I just got a little uneasy because I'd already emotionally pinned my hopes and dreams on RJ and Im becoming unconvinced. Yes, he puts down some gaudy stat lines, but lots of college player have done that and not been impact players in the NBA. I don't get the future "best player on a championship team" vibe from him right now.

someone talk me off the ledge please.


Well I'll tell you right now he ain't no Harden. Hes more athletic and far less skilled. Hes alot more Derozen than Harden and you might be saying...."I tanked a year to get Derozen?" Well this just ain't that good a draft folks. Really should a ranked last year harder and definitely harder the year before. I'm looking at this draft more for getting a really good player that compliments KP.

In other words no one guy is gonna end up the face of the Knicks for eternity. More like we're adding a solid player to the collective, which IMO could be really good. I don't even think Zion is that dude. Hes more I'm the mold of great point guard w/ finisher type of big man. He himself isn't really a team carrier. I'm sorry you had to hear that. This draft isnt that good.
Grady- Mario is the KD of tanking. Fiz got worried that playing Jordan would help the Knicks win, so he has to make sure Mario gets plenty of minutes.
User avatar
nazrmohamed
 
Joined: December 16, 2004, 9:06 pm
Location: Rockland, Ny

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby cragganmor » February 4, 2019, 8:47 pm

yeah, i watch him and as a scorer i kinda see derozan or andrew wiggins, but with a bit more versatility in the passing and rebounding game. i'm guessing that in the pro game, his versatility will be his best asset unless he fixes his ft and 3 pt stroke.

the thing that gets me about ja is the turnovers. 5 per gm, which is astounding. even with the fact that he averages 10 dimes, that is a lot of turnovers against fairly soft mid-major opponents.
User avatar
cragganmor
 
Joined: December 7, 2003, 9:35 pm
Location: New York City

Re: Zion, RJ, Cam, Bol or Jah?

Postby nazrmohamed » February 6, 2019, 8:06 pm

cragganmor wrote:yeah, i watch him and as a scorer i kinda see derozan or andrew wiggins, but with a bit more versatility in the passing and rebounding game. i'm guessing that in the pro game, his versatility will be his best asset unless he fixes his ft and 3 pt stroke.

the thing that gets me about ja is the turnovers. 5 per gm, which is astounding. even with the fact that he averages 10 dimes, that is a lot of turnovers against fairly soft mid-major opponents.


I dont want Ja but I'll defend him by saying his usage is so high and hes scores and creates so much for his team that I wouldn't be concerned about the turnovers.
Grady- Mario is the KD of tanking. Fiz got worried that playing Jordan would help the Knicks win, so he has to make sure Mario gets plenty of minutes.
User avatar
nazrmohamed
 
Joined: December 16, 2004, 9:06 pm
Location: Rockland, Ny

Previous

Return to College Basketball and NBA Draft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron