It's time for Carmelo Anthony and the Knicks to split up

[Muzhik1]

Make no mistake, Carmelo WILL force his way out of here if we have another below average summer. He wants help. He wants stars here. Carmelo wants Rondo here and Phil should give him Rondo, but Rondo alone will not do it. Carmelo wants real help. If Howard opts out, we should sign him. Cap will be an issue, so Phil has to find a way to unload Calderon or use a stretch provision on him. I would also trade Lopez while he is tradeable. Its possible to get his production at cheaper rates.

If we want to keep him here, we need to give him real help. Carmelo WILL NOT accept tanking next season, so we could get a good draft pick. If we strike out during free agency, expect another Melodrama, where he will force his way out. If he forced his way out, his value will decrease. Phil either needs to give him help or convince him to waive his trade clause this off season.

[n8 the gr8]

Make no mistake, Carmelo WILL force his way out of here if we have another below average summer. He wants help. He wants stars here. Carmelo wants Rondo here and Phil should give him Rondo, but Rondo alone will not do it. Carmelo wants real help. If Howard opts out, we should sign him. Cap will be an issue, so Phil has to find a way to unload Calderon or use a stretch provision on him. I would also trade Lopez while he is tradeable. Its possible to get his production at cheaper rates.

If we want to keep him here, we need to give him real help. Carmelo WILL NOT accept tanking next season, so we could get a good draft pick. If we strike out during free agency, expect another Melodrama, where he will force his way out. If he forced his way out, his value will decrease. Phil either needs to give him help or convince him to waive his trade clause this off season.

I think the Knicks are doing fine by Lopez and the salary cap is going to jump the next 2 years so his contract is only going to look better. But there's not that much attainable for his production.

The top 20 rebounders in the league:

Drummond- RFA this year, getting the max
DJordan- has multiple max offers from playoff bound teams
Dwight Howard- dude's a fucking nut and will get a max offer this summer
Hassan Whiteside- will likely get a max offer
Cousins- max
Anthony Davis- max
Pau Gasol- granted he's a good value on his current contract, if he's willing to sign with NY for a modest deal then make it happen but it'd be lucky.
KAT- not available
Zaza Pachulia- really good value here, good signing but not great defensively anyways. You can't count on that sort of value.
Rudy Gobert- on rookie deal
Julius Randle- on rookie deal
Marcin Gortat- about on par with Lopez
Draymond Green- max offers from multiple teams
Greg Monroe- max offers from multiple teams
Tristan Thompson- Cavs were going to match anything he got, and he's overpaid
Thaddeus Young- 12 mil per, on par value as Lopez
Valanciunis- 16 million per, on par
Faried- 12 million climbing to 14, on par

I'd say aside from rookie contracts Pachulia and Gasol are the only hands-down better signings.

If you're a good team and you can get a real star then yeah you might get better value with a max, otherwise you have to develop. 15 mil per isn't bad now and in 2018 the cap could hit 100 million+ at which point Lopez will be 15% of it. That's perfectly fine for an average center, allows the Knicks to make upgrades where it's really needed and you could justify bringing him off the bench if KP slides to start at center. If you can get a worthwhile asset then fine but don't trade Lopez for the sake of trading him.

I think the Knicks could make the playoffs with him being the 3rd most productive player and would be really good if he's the worst starter. He gets paid on par with that.

[StevoStarks]

I'd trade Melo for Whiteside straight up. EASY.

All I'm worried about is how you configure a Lopez, Whiteside KP frontcourt.

[nazrmohamed]

N8

before we scare anyone off with the max let's first know what that figure truly means. Cause last year a guy made his max and had the whole forum shook when that max ended up being only 3-4 mil more than what Lopez made. Then we spend more than that on collective bums anyway. Knicks fans got so enamored with not paying max money and building deep rather than top heavy cause they believe the reason we've failed is paying max contacts. And now we're seeing the results. Whiteside might only be eligible for a mini max somewhere around 18 mil and he's worth it.

Let's stop with this inner guilt complex about max contacts. We never failed because we have max contracts. We failed because one of our max contracts got hurt and pretty much stayed hurt for his entire contract with us. The other max contract? Well we made the playoffs 3x and once had the 2nd seed. So in my opinion that proves that looking for top tier talent works, we just gotta look for maxes without degenerative knee issues.

Now I've digressed a bit but one player Id consider is Hassan Whiteside. I think he's a stud and what's awesome about him is he isn't even anywhere near his prime. I don't dislike Lopez. His effort level is good, he is selfless and I do agree that he does more than his stats show. But let's be real here, it ain't that much better and we aren't making the playoffs. Show me a guy in the playoffs who is selfless, doesn't pad stats and is a glue guy and Ill respect that. Show me that same guy on a lottery team and Ill say we need more talent. Hassan has ridiculous talent, tons of untapped potential and he's actually getting better NOW.

Hes obviously advertised as an athletic freak similar to a Deandre Jordan but truth is he has been working. His midrange jump shot is just about as good as Lopez is now, he's linking together some post moves. Nothing Hakeem-like but improving. The Heat have him working on free throws and if you look at his percentage its still cringe worthy but if you're into trending, it's steadily improved since the start of the season to the point where you can't simply jump on his back in the fourth quarter. I think he'll only get better.

Then you consider his impact holistically, your talking about a 24 yr old they'll spend the next decade next to Porzingis. Between both I don't see why we couldn't have the most athletic interior in the league that's also a top defensive duo.


But but but nazr. You haven't addressed pg.

This is a longterm move folks. Its about truly changing the dynamics of our team. You gotta forget for two seconds the problems of today and envision what tomorrow will look like. Also one must think two to three moves ahead. You get Whiteside, trade Lopez and Afflalo and bring in a new backcourt. We ain't contending with Melo. He might even waive that clause anyway this summer. I say you trade for youth, picks and Build around KP and Whiteside.

[Mr3037]

I really like the idea of a Whiteside/KP front court for the next 10yrs BUT the only way I'd sign/trade for him is if I already had a trade locked up to get rid of Rolo.
Whether it's a move for the future or not having KP, Whiteside & Lopez on the same roster is a bad move financially & for their development.

IF we could sign Whiteside and trade Lopez + for a starting SG then we'd be in business!

[n8 the gr8]

Clipped

Nazr, I hear what you're saying and I should've addressed that point but I don't think it detracts from what I said.

I started off typing out "max offers from multiple teams" but stopped and just wrote "max". All of those guys had max offers from teams better than the Knicks, we never had a shot at attracting any of them. Max contracts create an artificial ceiling, so you can't always compare a player's value signed on the "free market" to someone who had the league dictate how much he could get paid when there were a bunch of teams ready to pay that much and willing to pay more if possible.

Look at all the best bigs in the league. Strike all the ones on max contracts and rookie deals. Now with the exception of the ones who have made big strides since signing their contract Lopez's production for the amount he gets paid is pretty average. You can't assume the Knicks are going to be able to attract a legit max player next time around or that we're going to get a stud on the rookie deal without a lottery pick. So the guys that I mentioned are the guys that the Knicks would be picking from in all likelihood if we just cap space instead of Lopez.

And Lopez signed a 4 year deal with the cap going up so it's going to look better. My point isn't that there's no team getting better production per dollar but the Knicks can't assume that we would. Therefore I say he's fine.

FWIW I'm not opposed to considering Melo-Whiteside. I'd want Winslow and a future 1st as well.

[taowave]

How about Rolo for Whiteside straight up????

hes not a bad fit with Miami..

Bosh,Lopez and Winslow would work upfront,Dragic and Wade in the backcourt

[nazrmohamed]

I wouldn't need Rolo moved to get Whiteside. Eventually yes, he's on my list to get traded but it doesn't have to be instantly. I could even wait until the next trade deadline. And that's part of the allure with Whiteside, he's young enough to not rush anything.

But what Id rather see is a sign and trade of Whiteside, Winslow and a future first for Melo. You ask for a pick two years from now when the Heat roster will have aged, gotten hurt and they fall out of the playoff picture. Im assuming that since Melos salary leaves with him that you still have 18 mil in cap space. You know how valuable that is? We could still be in the running for some good talent or if Phil is doing his job he has feelers out there and has a feel for any interest out there. If interest is weak we could even trade cap space for more picks. The Sixers do it all the time.

Grant
Galloway
Winslow
Porzingis
Whiteside

Then you package Lopez and maybe DWill for an upgrade at one of the guard positions, or wait till the next summer when we'll have more money. We'll have our own pick. But point is it's athletic, young, fresh and is something you can build upon.

[Mr3037]

I really don't like that starting 5.
Galloway is certified bench material & both Winslow and Grant are nowhere near NBA starters yet imo.

If you're trying to tank & save some $ for the following year then I could put up with it, maybe.

[big_j_NY]

I really don't like that starting 5.
Galloway is certified bench material & both Winslow and Grant are nowhere near NBA starters yet imo.

If you're trying to tank & save some $ for the following year then I could put up with it, maybe.

That was his plan..........did you honestly think that is nazr's "starting 5 of the future?"

We trade Melo for Whiteside, then we tank our way to top pick in the 2017 draft along with whatever 1st round pick from Miami that we get from a Melo trade.

That being said, I'd make a Lopez trade IMMEDIATELY AFTER Carmelo is traded.............no if, ands, or buts about it. If you really are going for a tank rebuild, you can't have depth issues along the way either........especially if the depth issues involve the playing time of youth and vet players.

[taowave]

Whiteside, Winslow and a future first ??
I don't think Riley does that,especially when you factor in the Bosh situation ..

I wouldn't need Rolo moved to get Whiteside. Eventually yes, he's on my list to get traded but it doesn't have to be instantly. I could even wait until the next trade deadline. And that's part of the allure with Whiteside, he's young enough to not rush anything.

But what Id rather see is a sign and trade of Whiteside, Winslow and a future first for Melo. You ask for a pick two years from now when the Heat roster will have aged, gotten hurt and they fall out of the playoff picture. Im assuming that since Melos salary leaves with him that you still have 18 mil in cap space. You know how valuable that is? We could still be in the running for some good talent or if Phil is doing his job he has feelers out there and has a feel for any interest out there. If interest is weak we could even trade cap space for more picks. The Sixers do it all the time.

Grant
Galloway
Winslow
Porzingis
Whiteside

Then you package Lopez and maybe DWill for an upgrade at one of the guard positions, or wait till the next summer when we'll have more money. We'll have our own pick. But point is it's athletic, young, fresh and is something you can build upon.

[Red]

Physically I'd give Whiteside the thumbs up. Mentality / Personality wise I'm not sure Phil would want him although he did deal with Andrew Bynum.

[taowave]

And Artest,not to mention Rodman

Physically I'd give Whiteside the thumbs up. Mentality / Personality wise I'm not sure Phil would want him although he did deal with Andrew Bynum.

[taowave]

While many believe it exceedingly unlikely that Pat Riley parts with his new toy in possible steal of the 2015 draft Justise Winslow, one can’t deny that he’s never been fond of draft picks, regularly shipping them out to reboot and reload during the LeBron era and before at other stops. Many view Whiteside as a head case, and he was linked to the Rockets before the trade deadline. He's also a free agent at the end of the season.

This deal doesn’t match the salary necessary to pry Melo away, but by tossing in waivable contracts, I’m sure these teams could work out a deal. The better question is if Miami would even consider this deal without getting a center back, but if Robin Lopez could be included this may be an all-systems-go situation. After all, Miami is a premier destination, and the Heat always finds itself in a competitive spot, even after losing LeBron James.

[thewatcher]

Our front court is fine, the backcourt needs two new starters, hard to fairly assess the front court with the guards we have.
Carmelo at PF 32 min/game.
Rolo at center 32 min/game.
KP 16 min at PF and 16 min at C.

now fill the other 3 positions,

[H20Knick]

my mind is absolutely blown you all watch the knicks and think we need to trade melo for another big.

another big

another fucking big

you will never learn

[thewatcher]

tell us what you really think H2O for the record you're agreeing with me.

[taowave]

H20,in all fairness,they said Melo for Whiteside,Winslow and a future first.That's not a bad trade IMHO,and let's face it,we will be lucky to win 35 games this year.

I am surprised no one would trade Lopez for Whiteside straight up. Would most likely cost us another 8 mil in cap, but with a little luck Afflalo opts out,and we stretch Jose.

If we can't win 50 games with

Melo
KP
Whiteside
Wroten/Grant
FA

The coach to be hired needs to be fired.

I would pull the trigger on Whiteside, Winslow and future first.Hassan would be a top 5 pick coming out,Winslow top 7 and a future first? That's pretty dam fair for a 32 y.of stud who led his team to a 35 win season.

my mind is absolutely blown you all watch the knicks and think we need to trade melo for another big.

another big

another fucking big

you will never learn

[Don Che]

Why are we talking like Whiteside is a pup...isn't he 26 years old? Lol

He's not old at all but he's not "coming out " in any draft at this age.

Riley won't trade Whiteside and Winslow for Melo and that's the only way I'd do that trade .....fix the guards...our front line is set...maybe a better back up but that's it.

[taowave]

don't love our front line...too clunky,not athletic enough...not saying its bad,would like some more athleticism. Trade rolo for whiteside

Why are we talking like Whiteside is a pup...isn't he 26 years old? Lol

He's not old at all but he's not "coming out " in any draft at this age.

Riley won't trade Whiteside and Winslow for Melo and that's the only way I'd do that trade .....fix the guards...our front line is set...maybe a better back up but that's it.