[Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby big_j_NY » January 4, 2019, 4:27 pm

Don Che wrote:1. if Woj or Stein doesnt say it it's not real.
2. we argued this before....and I said we have to place Embiid like situations in his deal.
3. are you guys willing to lose KP over that?

it's an interesting question when u throw the idea that we havent seen him play after his injury...the injury couldnt of been at a worse time...if it happened 4 months prior...hed be playing and we would have more time to evaluate and more chances to have luka smh


I can see that happening..........hell, I see that happening with many future contracts from every NBA team in the league.

The Embiid scenario has essentially opened up leverage for other teams wanting to take on "injury-prone stars" in the future, more "injury-provision" contracts I foresee being made in the future.......especially with more teams aiming to tank whenever they are presented with trying to build around an "injury-prone star" OR want to blow it up instead.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 4, 2019, 4:55 pm

What exactly is injury protection as it relates to the cap??

Hypothetical example..We sign him to a 5 year deal worth 150 mil..We agree to "injury protection" that essentially pays him half of what left on his contract. Im making up this structure

So lets say he never is healthy again and decides to retire. Instead of paying him 150,he gets 75 mil...

But which number goes against the CAP? Is it the larger number,150 mil or the 75mil we pay out.I am guessing the 150 mil and the team simply gets the Disabled Player Exception?

If we still take the full cap hit,I wouldnt bother with negotiating the "injury protection"..Its MSG's money,do we really care and risk pissing him off?



NewlyKnicked wrote:Adding injury protections to KP's future contract make great sense. We've been burnt too many times. Luck hasn't been on our side for quite a while and it may never find its way to us. Anything limiting the effects of bad fortune is welcomed around here.

We can't afford to lose our only star, but KP hopefully will get that we need that kind of guarantee
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby big_j_NY » January 4, 2019, 5:15 pm

taowave wrote:What exactly is injury protection as it relates to the cap??

Hypothetical example..We sign him to a 5 year deal worth 150 mil..We agree to "injury protection" that essentially pays him half of what left on his contract. Im making up this structure

So lets say he never is healthy again and decides to retire. Instead of paying him 150,he gets 75 mil...

But which number goes against the CAP? Is it the larger number,150 mil or the 75mil we pay out.I am guessing the 150 mil and the team simply gets the Disabled Player Exception?

If we still take the full cap hit,I wouldnt bother with negotiating the "injury protection"..Its MSG's money,do we really care and risk pissing him off?


Tao, here's an example of Joel Embiid's "injury provisions" in his current contract.......and I'll let you be the judge

For the Sixers to curb the ultimate value of the extension, it would take the triggering of several severe circumstances detailed in a 35-page-plus contract. Embiid's unique career trajectory -- missing his first two NBA seasons with successive foot surgeries and playing only 31 games in the 2016-17 season -- created a pathway for Philadelphia general manager Bryan Colangelo; Embiid's agents at CAA Sports; and the National Basketball Players Association to work together on creating a complicated and creative contractual agreement. The dramatic impact of Embiid's brief but dominant debut season left him as the only rookie since Wilt Chamberlain to average at least 28.7 points per 36 minutes played.

Here's how a perfect storm of calamity would have to unfold for Embiid to earn any less than the full $146.5 million: Across each of the final four seasons of the extension, ending with the 2022-23 season, the 76ers could waive Embiid for a financial benefit if he's lost because of a contractually agreed-upon injury that causes him to miss 25 or more regular-season games and if he plays fewer than 1,650 minutes, league sources said.

Specific injuries are laid out in the contract and include only past problem areas with Embiid's feet and back, sources said. Embiid has to miss 25 or more regular-season games because of injuries to those areas, and play fewer than 1,650 minutes, for Philadelphia to have the option of releasing him for cost savings.

For example, if Embiid hypothetically suffered a serious knee or wrist injury -- something outside the contractual language surrounding the feet and back -- the 76ers would have no avenue to waive Embiid to reclaim any portion of his salary. And given Embiid's rare talent, there's a belief that he'd have to suffer a career-ending injury to inspire the 76ers to release him.

If Embiid met that narrow criteria and the Sixers decided to waive him after the 2018-19 season, he would receive $84.2 million of his full contract; after the 2019-20 season, $98.2 million; after the 2020-21 season, $113.3 million; and after the 2021-22 season, $129.4 million.

What's more, if Embiid played a minimum of 1,650 regular-season minutes in three consecutive years during the extension, or three out of four including the 2017-18 season, those benchmarks would eliminate the possibility of a reduction in the contract, league sources said.

The first full season of Embiid's contract extension starts with the 2018-19 season and pays him $25.3 million, a salary that escalates a standard 8 percent per year until the 2022-23 season.

For Embiid to reach the threshold of the super maximum contract criteria -- which would pay him 30 percent of the salary cap and ultimately as much as $176 million -- Embiid must earn first-team All-NBA honors or be voted the NBA's Most Valuable Player in the 2017-18 season.

Source: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2098 ... hic-injury
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 4, 2019, 6:07 pm

It appears that the 76ers will get nailed with the full cap hit,but only pay out a percentage of his contract if he is unable to play due to pre specified injuries.

I didnt see any clauses that relate to the cap,only the ability to waive him for a financial benefit",not a cap reduction...

I wouldnt risk pissing him off in that case
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby marcuscamby23 » January 6, 2019, 10:13 am

taowave wrote:It appears that the 76ers will get nailed with the full cap hit,but only pay out a percentage of his contract if he is unable to play due to pre specified injuries.

I didnt see any clauses that relate to the cap,only the ability to waive him for a financial benefit",not a cap reduction...

I wouldnt risk pissing him off in that case


How could a contract include a specific "cap provision" when neither party entering the contract controls the cap rules? It would be like entering into an employment contract that defines what types of fraud the federal government could prosecute you for. The provision in Embid's contract, as described above, appears to clarify the conditions in which his contract is not guaranteed. Exercising this provision should have the same cap effect as waiving a player on a non-guaranteed contract.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 6, 2019, 11:22 am

Thats why i was wondering why we would even bother approaching Team Janis with that type of language...

We pay Phil,Derek and Horn apx 21 mil per to sit at home and clip Treasury coupons..

Who cares if KP gets paid 30 mil of Dolans money??
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby NewlyKnicked » January 6, 2019, 11:25 am

Don’t forget abouti noah
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 6, 2019, 11:40 am

OOOPSSSS..Forgot he was ever on the team..So thats close to 40 mil we are shelling out of MSG money...

No way do I approach KP with injury protection clauses...



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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby marcuscamby23 » January 6, 2019, 12:37 pm

taowave wrote:Thats why i was wondering why we would even bother approaching Team Janis with that type of language...


I think you misunderstood my point. Whether or not something counts against the cap has nothing to do with a "cap provision" in the contract as neither party in the contract has the authority to determine salary cap application. It has to do with how the contract sits within the rules if the cap which is basically if the money is guaranteed and if it gets paid. If a player is cut, unguaranteed money does not generally count against the cap.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby marcuscamby23 » January 6, 2019, 12:39 pm

taowave wrote:Who cares if KP gets paid 30 mil of Dolans money??


Dolan might...lol
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 6, 2019, 12:51 pm

If I am understanding you correctly, the 146.5 mil contract is contingent on Embiids health as it relates to specific injury clauses,and should he not meet the conditions set forth,he will be paid out as specified by the contract.Any unpaid money will NOT count against the cap??




marcuscamby23 wrote:
I think you misunderstood my point. Whether or not something counts against the cap has nothing to do with a "cap provision" in the contract as neither party in the contract has the authority to determine salary cap application. It has to do with how the contract sits within the rules if the cap which is basically if the money is guaranteed and if it gets paid. If a player is cut, unguaranteed money does not generally count against the cap.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby marcuscamby23 » January 6, 2019, 2:46 pm

taowave wrote:If I am understanding you correctly, the 146.5 mil contract is contingent on Embiids health as it relates to specific injury clauses,and should he not meet the conditions set forth,he will be paid out as specified by the contract.Any unpaid money will NOT count against the cap??


Should he not meet the conditions as set forth AND the 76ers choose to waive him as a result unpaid (unguaranteed) money should NOT count against the cap.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby shakespeare » January 9, 2019, 10:25 am

This is more along the lines of what I’m negatively thinking: New York offers Porzingis some weak contract and he turns around and goes the qualifying offer route only to sign elsewhere as an unrestricted free agent. And we lose him for absolutely nothing in return.

But here’s another more realistic scenario where New York offers Porzingis a crappy contract and another team [and no, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Brooklyn] offers the max and New York matches it:

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/01/08/sa ... porzingis/
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby washingtonparkjones » January 9, 2019, 12:18 pm

I don't really know the specifics but the rules are generally structured to allow NY to make a better offer than the "max" from a new team.

If so, there's really no drama to the pitch. KP can sign for the most money here with a contingency, or sign for a lesser "max" deal that we will match. Either way, he's here. It's not about being here or not, so if his camp is a bunch of whiney drama queen bitches about this and want to get all insulted, FUCK EM. Time to adult. The conversation is "KP you are here for at least another four years. This conversation is about how we structure your deal during that time."

So, does he want a shorter contract for less money but all guaranteed, or the full max for five years with contingencies.

If he's not grown enough to get over it over the period of his next contract he's not a champion and I'd be happy to look to trade him in a few years.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 9, 2019, 12:29 pm

Assuming his knee checks out,hes going to get a max from us. I cant see an injury prone guy rolling the dice(qualifying offer) and not taking the max....




washingtonparkjones wrote:I don't really know the specifics but the rules are generally structured to allow NY to make a better offer than the "max" from a new team.

If so, there's really no drama to the pitch. KP can sign for the most money here with a contingency, or sign for a lesser "max" deal that we will match. Either way, he's here. It's not about being here or not, so if his camp is a bunch of whiney drama queen bitches about this and want to get all insulted, FUCK EM. Time to adult. The conversation is "KP you are here for at least another four years. This conversation is about how we structure your deal during that time."

So, does he want a shorter contract for less money but all guaranteed, or the full max for five years with contingencies.

If he's not grown enough to get over it over the period of his next contract he's not a champion and I'd be happy to look to trade him in a few years.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby Don Che » January 11, 2019, 4:54 pm

i just hope the spurs dont try hard to get him...because i wont lie...if i was him...i'd def consider it
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 11, 2019, 6:20 pm

we will match all offers..

hes insane if he takes the qualifier and rolls the dice for a year....

https://elitesportsny.com/2019/01/11/kn ... of-injury/




Don Che wrote:i just hope the spurs dont try hard to get him...because i wont lie...if i was him...i'd def consider it
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby H20Knick » January 31, 2019, 2:56 pm

From BPD's facebook post:

Reporting with @ZachLowe and @RamonaShelburne: In meeting with management today, Knicks forward Kristaps Porzingis expressed his concern with the losing, franchise direction and an uncertainty that a culture is developing that will enable sustainable organizational success.
Get well, KD. :(

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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby StevoStarks » January 31, 2019, 3:08 pm

I saw that. He does understand what is happening, right?
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby highway61 » January 31, 2019, 4:13 pm

Knicks heirarchy wants to trade him, and are trying to turn the fanbase against him. Fizdale doesn't like European players. They are leaking all this to make KP look like a crybaby.
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