Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby NewlyKnicked » October 12, 2018, 5:29 am

I'm pretty sure Fiz looking at Livingston as inspiration for molding Frank's game basically means "use your size to post-up smaller players". Enes would be an iinteresting teacher for that btw.

So at least one other great mind has noticed Frank's size
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby taowave » October 12, 2018, 9:31 am

Yeah,sadly we are looking at Livingston after his catastrophic knee injury as a comp for Frank..






NewlyKnicked wrote:I'm pretty sure Fiz looking at Livingston as inspiration for molding Frank's game basically means "use your size to post-up smaller players". Enes would be an iinteresting teacher for that btw.

So at least one other great mind has noticed Frank's size
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby NYGM » October 12, 2018, 10:31 am

Koopa Troopa wrote:Well Frank has to show something if you wanna make him the PG. I wouldnt build my team around Frank. Hes not the franchise player and the Knicks clearly are not set at PG.

What value does he have at PG? What has he shown...even in a flash. Just one play in his career, name one. He hasnt done anything. Im all for Frank defending elite guards, but he cannot be the primary ballhandler on a wining team. Honestly Knox would be a better PG than Frank, thats how bad Frank is at every aspect of being a PG. When has Frank pulled down a board and started a fast break? Knox has done that every game so far.


Frank just exists on the Knicks. He doesnt do anything. No dribble, no pass, no rebound, no blocks, no nothing. He is just there.


Frank has size they say. Well how is he using it? Im not seeing him use it. Is he developing a post game? Is he studying any Gary Payton or Jason Kidd footage? Nope, all we saw in the offseason was him posting some clips of him failing at dribbling drills that 10 year old kids can do effortlessly. Seriously, no matter how many dribbling drills he does, he wont ever have a better handle than Trier. Hes a kid sure, but he aint a KID KID. Nobody in the history of bball has learned how to be an elite ballhandler solely from the NBA, only how to refine the skill they already had from when they were younger and add upon that repertoire. Iverson was crossing MJ in his rookie year, not himself. So just stop it. If people wanna talk about Frank's size as an asset then he should stop that "im gonna learn to dribble" nonsense and watch some J Kidd and Payton. If you wanna use your size then use it. POST UP. Call up Kobe. Call up anyone. Andre Miller.....Hell call Clarence Weatherspoon. :drunk:

You said it too, not every PG has to be in the same mold as Irving or Curry. So what is he doing to differentiate himself? I think a post up game would do wonders for his career. Too bad hes not getting that advice from anyone.

The job was his for the taking. All the PG's on this team are trash. All he did in the preseason while the other guards were fighting was stand around and exist. No way you reward that.

Even if Frank can't attack the basket at all, it would be nice if he could dribble the ball up the court and run a play at least. He has to step up. Its not my fault I'm criticizing him, its on him. Do something with the time you are given.

Ill also say that while game 1 was nice, Fiz has been letting them play way too freely. I think hes trying to let guys audition for the PG role and thats why these guys are out there firing, but I dont wanna see that garbage in the regular season. Knox Kanter and THJ deserve the shots, not Trier and Burke. Like I said its Franks for the taking since the other two guys are allergic to passing, but Frank's allergic to the spotlight. Hes gotta wake up or before he knows it his contract will be up and nobody will be calling.


You are way off... Borderline crazy stuff..
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby NYGM » October 12, 2018, 10:37 am

Livingston is a winning player for sure..

But I think that will confuse Frank since his role is not clear.. Basically you're going to ask him to clear all the defensive mess created for others? Without a developing plan in place?..

Fiz needs to find a clear role for Frank, there's no reason in my mind to not try him over guys like Burke and Mudiay..

At the end of the day getting PT is really important for any young player. And Frank needs around 30+ minutes per game..
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby NewlyKnicked » October 12, 2018, 11:07 am

taowave wrote:Yeah,sadly we are looking at Livingston after his catastrophic knee injury as a comp for Frank..

I was sure the Shaun's comp was going to be read as a negative. He's just a current player that pops up to mind when you're looking for a PG able to postup. Chill, Frank will be better
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby taowave » October 12, 2018, 11:41 am

I am not Anti Frank,but I am against the chatter that he's a 2,a 3 or guarding 4's..

I get this position less basketball nonsense,but in Frank's case it's just an excuse to justify his existence..

Frank needs to prove he can play the point effectively,or demonstrate that he is a lights out shooter..Then we can talk the 2..
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby gradyandrew » October 12, 2018, 1:18 pm

Harsh but the truth Koop. Frank isnt a PG.
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby washingtonparkjones » October 12, 2018, 2:39 pm

Don Che wrote:I'd rather get 25 wins giving Frank and Knox the keys

than 32 wins while giving Burke and Tim the keys


Boom. Says everything right there.

Are Trey and Tim the best backcourt right now. Yes. Do I care? No.

Winning this year is not the priority. Winning next year is the goal. That is best accomplished with a combination of losing (=high draft pick) and separating the wheat from the chaff in our last two draft classes.
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby nazrmohamed » October 12, 2018, 3:42 pm

There were a couple things I think were off but overall hes right. I think Frank is a solid passer. I just dont think hes a draw and kick passer but I know he finds guys in good spots. But overall Koops post was right on and I defend Frank the most. I just dont like the absolute sense of he.

Hes not a pg
He'll never be a PG

I think hes a pg that needs to develop his game. Cuz guess what, putting him at SG doesnt make him the player you want him to be if this indeed is how you feel about him. It's not like him playing SG is gonna elevate his scoring total, it's not like putting him at SF is gonna elevate his rebounding potential. It's not like hes gonna get more aggresive playing PF.

Hes either a good player or not a good player at this point. But again, his value I believe will be seen alongside of other go to players. When Hardaway and KP were lit af, guess what? Frank looked like a decent PG. When he played with iso Trier even, Frank looked like a solid complimentary PG. Trier scored his points but Frank got those stops and made plays.

So from a team aspect I do see value but in alot of ways from a coaching standpoint, like if Koopa wanted to pull Frank off to the side and ream him for his play as an individual....it was spot on. I love the idea of what Frank can do but I find myself screaming the same things at the TV. Look, Trier could give a flying F if you think his game is fundamentally sound right now. Hes just attacking. Yet all of a sudden hes got more potential than Frank. So Frank better start getting with the program and have games like the last one. He should score no less than 10 per night on this roster. Be selfish. It's a lost season and we're gonna lose alot. Since losing is built in all anyone will remember is individual performances.
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby Red » October 12, 2018, 5:31 pm

As usual... we got 2 players doing the job that should be done by 1.

We've got size and defense in Frank and scoring/offense and handle in Burke. Put them together and there's the pg we should want.

Now please ask yourself: what valid-legit Point guard you saw that it took you 3 years to decide of he could play?
Those players whom you took years to figure out are NOT the ones I want. I want the one's who you knew off the bat.

Typical Knicks, multiple guys doing the job of one.

If you're job description is to handle the rock, run the offense, set guys up and distribute on offense and d-up on defense and of that you d-up only, then you are NOT the guard we should want.

If we need to see three fucking years of you to see if you can play... then You cant play!

I'll endorse Frank at the 1 if his d is solid and after a good look (training camp, preseason) by Fiz. Bit if by then (yes then as in game 1) he's not convinced then move on to the next.
Knicks president Steve Mills made it clear that New York plans to sign a star in the 2019 offseason. "Porzingis is a magnet."

"I’m ready to come out and show people I’m able to play defense...’’Kevin Knox
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby taowave » October 12, 2018, 9:04 pm

Good stuff Red :thumbsup:

Red wrote:As usual... we got 2 players doing the job that should be done by 1.

We've got size and defense in Frank and scoring/offense and handle in Burke. Put them together and there's the pg we should want.

Now please ask yourself: what valid-legit Point guard you saw that it took you 3 years to decide of he could play?
Those players whom you took years to figure out are NOT the ones I want. I want the one's who you knew off the bat.

Typical Knicks, multiple guys doing the job of one.

If you're job description is to handle the rock, run the offense, set guys up and distribute on offense and d-up on defense and of that you d-up only, then you are NOT the guard we should want.

If we need to see three fucking years of you to see if you can play... then You cant play!

I'll endorse Frank at the 1 if his d is solid and after a good look (training camp, preseason) by Fiz. Bit if by then (yes then as in game 1) he's not convinced then move on to the next.
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby shakespeare » October 13, 2018, 9:43 am

Koopa Troopa wrote:

Frank just exists on the Knicks. He doesnt do anything. No dribble, no pass, no rebound, no blocks, no nothing. He is just there.


Chill, Koop.

We just want Ntilikina to show some passion, that’s all.
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby shakespeare » October 13, 2018, 9:47 am

washingtonparkjones wrote:
Are Trey and Tim the best backcourt right now. Yes. Do I care? No.



Chill, WPJ.

We just want to add trade value to Burke in case some disgruntled star player decides he wants out of his situation. As for THJ, as unpopular of an opinion it may be, he’s the best scorer on the team not named Porzingis.
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby shakespeare » October 13, 2018, 9:49 am

Don Che wrote:I'd rather get 25 wins giving Frank and Knox the keys

than 32 wins while giving Burke and Tim the keys


Don Che for Tank Commander.

Vote.
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby Don Che » October 13, 2018, 10:28 am

it's not tanking when your a bad team.

been preaching this for a while.

just keep player accountable and focus on big picture
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby taowave » October 13, 2018, 11:43 am

:thumbsup:
Hi

Don Che wrote:it's not tanking when your a bad team.

been preaching this for a while.

just keep player accountable and focus on big picture
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby cragganmor » October 13, 2018, 9:51 pm

Winning meaningless games that don't get you into title contention just doesn't work. Especially when the elite talent at the top of the draft is excellent.

Win 7-8 more games or draft a Bartlett, williamson, etc. and get further along the learning curve with Frank and Kev?
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby NYGM » October 14, 2018, 9:03 am

cragganmor wrote:Winning meaningless games that don't get you into title contention just doesn't work. Especially when the elite talent at the top of the draft is excellent.

Win 7-8 more games or draft a Bartlett, williamson, etc. and get further along the learning curve with Frank and Kev?


This should be the focus..

Any FA would understand this approach...
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby Don Che » October 14, 2018, 11:45 am

where we draft....I'm looking at my 3 guidelines

shooting the 3
passing
defending

if a player does it at a position Knox plays...or Frank...anyone not named KP...so be it.

no one has shown me that they can be an all star in their own right
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Re: Bigger role for Trier smaller role for Knox

Postby nazrmohamed » October 14, 2018, 1:34 pm

Don Che wrote:where we draft....I'm looking at my 3 guidelines

shooting the 3
passing
defending

if a player does it at a position Knox plays...or Frank...anyone not named KP...so be it.

no one has shown me that they can be an all star in their own right


Well absolutely but let that actually happen. Play our youth and then you'll have your pick of the best players to do exactly what you said. Play Hardaway, Lee, Thomas and Kanter and watch your team still lose in the end while drafting 10th.
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