11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (L 101-104)

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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby nazrmohamed » November 14, 2017, 12:24 pm

Don Che wrote:Mikal Bridges
Rui Hachimura
Alize Johnson
Jarred Vanderbilt
Emmanual Akot

all guys who fit that mold ^^^^^^ and have the tools to lock it up and have Lance mentor them. Since we basically need a younger Lance Thomas with actual NBA talent.


I think it was you who showed us that draft site. I liked it. Can you post that again? I can't find it.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby Don Che » November 14, 2017, 12:32 pm

i just posted to the 2 i go to in the draft thread viewtopic.php?f=12&t=39825&p=715143#p715143

anyone has websites for nba mocks post them there so we can all argue and hate eachother over players with the same info lol

edit: dont know how to link it like you cool kids. its the 2018 draft discussion in the college/draft thread
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby spree#8 » November 14, 2017, 12:46 pm

Don Che wrote:i just posted to the 2 i go to in the draft thread http://forums.nykfp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=39825&p=715143#p715143

anyone has websites for nba mocks post them there so we can all argue and hate eachother over players with the same info lol

edit: dont know how to link it like you cool kids. its the 2018 draft discussion in the college/draft thread


The website was missing... (see the bold part)
viewtopic.php?f=12&p=715143#p715143
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby big_j_NY » November 14, 2017, 1:25 pm

I think KP already has a go-to move already from the post...........that turnaround jumper. Yes, it is technically not a "post-move" per-say.......but this is the go-to shot that Dirk uses in the post, which is what KP has picked up from Dirk this past summer in workouts. Hell, Patrick Ewing back in the day used the turnaround jumpshot in the low post a lot more often than his hook shots and up-and-unders......and Ewing once put up 50 points at one point in his NBA career.

Also, it appears a portion of KP's developing post moves that we have seen these past 13 games are also borrowed from someone else that we all know with a very solid post game...........Carmelo. You can see it whenever KP positions himself on the floor at times, especially the areas where KP "posts-ups." They are all "Carmelo spots" on the floor from when he played here. Also when KP "jab-steps" in his triple-threat face up position from the post area, the manuerisms from his jab-steps all emulate Carmelo Anthony....not Dirk, not any other big men with a face-up post game.

At this point all KP needs to work on is getting more stronger so he can be able to score against the "stronger" Lebrons, Dwight Howards, and Al Horfords in the post area.....since those are the players that seem to defend him better at this point in his young career.

Sure he can learn a few McHale up-and-unders and low post pump fakes, but I think KP is already 70% the way in defining his post game with his turnaround jump shot already being polished up from the post area. He just needs strength and experience now, that is all
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby Don Che » November 14, 2017, 1:29 pm

a jump hook right/left and sky hook would take KP to another stratosphere
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby big_j_NY » November 14, 2017, 1:38 pm

Don Che wrote:a jump hook right/left and sky hook would take KP to another stratosphere


It would, but usually those moves become a "go-to move" after years of repetition. KP has been shooting jumpers his whole life, and possibly been shooting turnaround jumpers just as long.

Even if he refines a hook shot or two, I still see KP relying on his jump shot more in the low post than backing down like Shaq and turning with his left or right shoulder with a hook. He's 23, but I think his offensive game is damn near close to a finish product than most of you guys think it isn't.

His passing ability from the low post, especially against trap defenses and normal double-teams, that is the next thing he needs to work on in his offensive game.........since a number of turnovers and missed shots from KP last night came from him trying to barrel his way against Cleveland's double teams.

KP can score now from the post, but can he do it like Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, and Ewing and pass the ball when a double-team comes?
Last edited by big_j_NY on November 14, 2017, 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby spree#8 » November 14, 2017, 1:40 pm

After a night's sleep, despite the loss I'm somewhat proud of the performance. We looked really good before the Cavs broke our defense down in the fourth. Lots of good things to take to the next games and some valuable lessons.

For our coaching staff my reminder of things already mentioned yesterday:
1) Don't bring the unexperienced bench line-up in to finish the third quarter. Stay with (some) starters until you have killed every hope for a comeback.
2) Don't be afraid to make defensive adjustments in the fourth quarter, just because your defense plan worked fantastic for almost three quarters. If you know that the only way the other team can come back is from the three point line - account for that.
3) If the other team's best player (who yesterday happened to be the best in the world) decides to take on your number option, don't force it into that match-up. Go through Kanter/Hardaway with Lee or McDermott as additional shooting options.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby spree#8 » November 14, 2017, 1:47 pm

Don Che wrote:a jump hook right/left and sky hook would take KP to another stratosphere

big_j_NY wrote:It would, but usually those moves become a "go-to move" after years of repetition. KP has been shooting jumpers his whole life, and possibly been shooting turnaround jumpers just as long.

Even if he refines a hook shot or two, I still see KP relying on his jump shot more in the low post than backing down like Shaq and turning with his left or right shoulder with a hook. He's 23, but I think his offensive game is damn near close to a finish product than most of you guys think it isn't.

His passing ability from the low post, especially against trap defenses and normal double-teams, that is the next thing he needs to work on in his offensive game.........since a number of turnovers and missed shots from KP last night came from him trying to barrel his way against Cleveland's double teams.

KP can score now from the post, but can he do it like Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, and Ewing and pass the ball when a double-team comes?


I agree with you big J. He just wasn't sure what to do against the physical defense of LeBron, but he already has shown us his go-to-moves, which clearly are those mid-range jumpers out of the post. BTW: a skyhook wouldn't have helped against LeBron yesterday, because KP's main problem was that he could only get the ball too far out. Cavs really pressured our guards and KP better to deny the passes to KP in his sweet spot. But we still scored 25 points in the fourth, so that wasn't the reason the Cavs got back. 9 (of 20) three pointers made by Cleveland were the main difference...
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby big_j_NY » November 14, 2017, 1:55 pm

I'll concur with you spree, it definitely was LACK OF COACHING ADJUSTMENTS that did cost us overall.

As I stated before, that Cavs team has too much damn experience to let our young Knicks squad's adrenaline to run for the full 48 minutes that they were eventually gonna punch us down somewhere........and it was the coaching staff's job to make sure to hold the momentum once Cleveland finally regained their footing in the game.

We all forget that Hornacek is still a young coach as well (not in age, but in experience.......this is only his 5th season as a head coach as I recall), so this game was also to be blamed on Hornacek's inexperience along with the entire squad.

We had a 23+ lead in the middle of the 3rd quarter, but then Jeff "prematurely" declared it a victory for himself when he put in the entire bench lineup to finish the 3rd quarter.......where the lead began to lose momentum AND Cleveland began to rediscover themselves.

That was a "rookie coaching" move on Jeff's part, and I think he will see it as well when he starts reviewing game tape of last night's game.

Jeff still has a lot to learn as a head coach (including leadership against veteran star players, which he already failed at last season), but Jeff has made a solid bounce back after the first 3 losses of this season......he's not the same SAWFT stubborn fool of last season as we saw in the first 3 games this year, he is certainly trying to gain respect as a coach that can push young players to play their hardest.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby H20Knick » November 14, 2017, 2:01 pm

Why was kanter on the bench in the last 4 minutes though? Does anyone know? Half of defense is rebounding and you take out the guy that wont let wade and lebron get game winning offensive rebounds?
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby spree#8 » November 14, 2017, 2:03 pm

In general I'm pretty pleased with Hornacek's coaching this year and a game like this can also be a very good thing for a coaching staff, because even if you don't find the right solutions in that particular game, they can probably present the guys solutions to the collapse in the upcoming film and practice sessions, which should help us later on in the development. It's sometimes even better to lose to get to this point of a clear view on things, instead of just holding on which often just covers up the same mistakes.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby spree#8 » November 14, 2017, 2:07 pm

H20Knick wrote:Why was kanter on the bench in the last 4 minutes though? Does anyone know? Half of defense is rebounding and you take out the guy that wont let wade and lebron get game winning offensive rebounds?


I'm also not sure. Maybe they thought that Kanter would be too slow. Maybe the small line-up was our attempt to cover up the space needed to close out the three point line as well as possible - which obviously didn't work the way we did it...

Lance Thomas' heroics of the games before came to an end.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby H20Knick » November 14, 2017, 2:39 pm

You have to trust your team though, right?

Your offense is sputtering, yet your most reliable scorer and master of offensive rebounds is on the bench. I just dont like changing what we do to adjust to another team. It's always bothered me. It's been the crux of my "why kristaps won't win a title at the 4 spot" argument since he was drafted. The best teams in the league are going to play small down the stretch and you cant matchup with traditional bigs. But if Kanter is tops in the league in ORB%, 3rd in the league in total rebonud percentage, and 3rd in the league in FG%.... I'm not leaving him on the bench down the stretch. I have zero complaints with Hornacek overall, and I never have. But I hope he learned to stick to his guns now. I honestly dont think we lose that game if Kanter is in down the stretch.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby taowave » November 14, 2017, 2:53 pm

Slow????

That guy was the first one down the floor on the outlet pass..

I don't get this crunch time benching

spree#8 wrote:
I'm also not sure. Maybe they thought that Kanter would be too slow. Maybe the small line-up was our attempt to cover up the space needed to close out the three point line as well as possible - which obviously didn't work the way we did it...

Lance Thomas' heroics of the games before came to an end.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby spree#8 » November 14, 2017, 2:57 pm

spree#8 wrote:
I'm also not sure. Maybe they thought that Kanter would be too slow. Maybe the small line-up was our attempt to cover up the space needed to close out the three point line as well as possible - which obviously didn't work the way we did it...

Lance Thomas' heroics of the games before came to an end.

taowave wrote:Slow????

That guy was the first one down the floor on the outlet pass..

I don't get this crunch time benching



Lateral quickness on defense - or in Kanter's case the lack of it.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby taowave » November 14, 2017, 3:07 pm

He's a beast...I'm about to join Team Kanter,but would really like a long stud defender at the 3.

spree#8 wrote:
Lateral quickness on defense - or in Kanter's case the lack of it.
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby shakespeare » November 14, 2017, 3:32 pm

Don Che wrote:a jump hook right/left and sky hook would take KP to another stratosphere
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby StevoStarks » November 14, 2017, 3:38 pm

NewlyKnicked wrote:after 2 comebacks swinging our way we were due for one biting our asses. Lebron can be a downright asshole, but, man, can he play.

I always think that teams learn more from tough losses than wins esp following this chucking scenario. BUT lessons need to be learnt
- Horny should refine his rotations and adjustement esp when KP is off
- Frank needs to be more aggressive in offense (but thumbs up for league season-high number of steals)
- KP will find a way when targeted by good D

Tough loss but necessary step toward greatness


Exactly! A young team needs these games to grow. It's a hard pill to swallow and really sucks as a fan, but we're going to come back stronger.

Short term memory guys, on to the next one.

How about this quote from Kanter. Dude is the real deal.

"We all got Frank's back, we all got each other's back," Kanter said Tuesday. "That's what we're playing for. I'm saying this -- it's us against the world. As soon as you step on that court, we've got no friends."
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (7:30 pm)

Postby nazrmohamed » November 14, 2017, 7:57 pm

H20Knick wrote:Why was kanter on the bench in the last 4 minutes though? Does anyone know? Half of defense is rebounding and you take out the guy that wont let wade and lebron get game winning offensive rebounds?


Yeah well, up until last night it had been working. Still probably will on average. But it definitely didn't last night and it shows that not everything works against everybody,
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Re: 11/13/17: New York Knicks vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (L 101-104)

Postby bobhait » November 14, 2017, 10:19 pm

this one hurt, but it's good to care about the Knicks again where losses make you downright depressed
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