Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

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Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby shakespeare » September 29, 2017, 7:07 pm

I hardly believed it was possible for Cleveland to improve their team this offseason. But it appears they've done just that. I hated to see Kyrie leave, but barring injury to Thomas, Cavs walked away like bandits.

Celtics are still not beating Cavs in a playoff series and I don't know who everyone thinks Gordon Hayward is. Celtics traded Thomas, Crowder and Bradley, and lost Olynyk. They completely lost the heart and soul, the identity of their team, if you ask me. Brad Stevens is an excellent coach but even he admits Boston lost its grit this offseason.

To me, what gets lost in the sauce is Thomas' scoring ability: Cavs lose absolutely nothing in that regard. Yet gained everything with the addition of Jae Crowder, one of the most underrated defenders in the league and a solid scorer himself. To have any shot at defeating Warriors in a series, Cavs needed to improve their overall defense and bench scoring, which they accomplished in the Irving trade.

Then, if that wasn't enough, they robbed Boston of the '18 lottery pick.

Not to mention Cavs signed Jeff Green, Derrick Rose and Wade.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby Koopa Troopa » September 29, 2017, 7:45 pm

Yep. Ainge stacked ALL those assets for what? From the moment they traded Bradley I knew something was wrong. I wasnt surprised they traded Isiah, Bradley meant so much to that team so I dont think Isiah was happy at all. Isiah might be acting shocked, but theres absolutely no way he was okay with that Bradley deal.

Like I said in the other topic, Ill take the Wiz over these guys. Wiz have years of chemistry, Boston just flipped their whole roster into a bunch of guys who cant defend.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby shakespeare » September 30, 2017, 1:14 pm

Same here. I wasn't surprised Ainge traded Thomas; I never believed he wanted to invest hundreds of millions into him. And there was nothing that made me believe he wanted to invest in Bradley, either. The Kyrie trade offer, I figured, happened at the last minute.

Like you said, Celtics weakened their defense this offseason.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby nazrmohamed » September 30, 2017, 3:35 pm

I had him rated as a genius before the trade. I never thought hed give up that pick
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby gradyandrew » October 5, 2017, 11:18 am

It doesn't matter. The only player who would have moved the needle is Demarcus Cousins. Golden state played the finals at half speed and still the only way the cavs could win is bt scoring 140 points. Rose, Wade, Thomas will get buckets but give up that many and more on the other side. Tristan was totally negated last season and Kevin Love is such a liabilitythe warriors should get him a ring. Cavs are toast again.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby gradyandrew » October 5, 2017, 11:22 am

And I seriously believe that Kyrie >>> Isaiah, Rose, Wade

At the end of the day there's still only one ball.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby shakespeare » October 5, 2017, 3:04 pm

gradyandrew wrote:And I seriously believe that Kyrie >>> Isaiah, Rose, Wade



Cavs already have the best player in the NBA on their roster, so Kyrie being better than the combination of Thomas, Rose and Wade is a mute point. Cavs needed to add defense and depth.

Therefore question is whether you believe Cavs improved their team this offseason?
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby spree#8 » January 20, 2018, 7:24 pm

I wonder: Shakes, do you still think that this year's Cavs will be better than last season's? They look disjointed right now.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby dcapodic » January 21, 2018, 12:07 pm

spree#8 wrote:I wonder: Shakes, do you still think that this year's Cavs will be better than last season's? They look disjointed right now.


They are a typical veteran team, they just cannot or will not bring it every night and this includes Lebron. Also, trying to fit in any major piece, like Thomas seems to always take adjustment especially since he needs the ball in his hands to be effective and that is usually reserved for Lebron.

I like the way that Gilbert is dealing with Lebron....when there are rumors about bringing in players, he has said he is not making any moves unless Lebron commits to a 3 year deal. Good for him, why get rid of his potential rebuilding pieces (Nets pick, tradable talent, etc.) when Lebron might decide to just leave.

During the GSW/Rockets game last night they started talking about the Cavs and how there is a rumor they might fire Lue as coach. Come on, as if he is the coach. Amazing how people fool themselves into believing this stuff.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby spree#8 » January 21, 2018, 12:35 pm

I likely would've brought in a new coach after last years finals. And I'm not sure, that a team thrown together with every veteran available will grow into a good team. I'm also very unsure that even if they do, that they will have a chance to be better than last season's version.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby shakespeare » January 21, 2018, 12:36 pm

Spree,

I believe Cavs will be in the NBA Finals. Not sure if their record will be better or worse than last season, but I’d guarantee they’ll be there.

Why?

Well, Cavs have the best player in the game and only the inexperienced Boston Celtics to contend in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Like Dcap, I believe Cleveland’s current issues stem from everything except the lack
of talent. They may need to send headcases Derrick Rose, JR Smith and Tristan Thompson packing.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby shakespeare » January 21, 2018, 12:40 pm

spree#8 wrote:I'm also very unsure that even if they do, that they will have a chance to be better than last season's version.


1) Do you believe Lue has lost the team?
2) What EC team do you believe can defeat them in the playoffs?
3) Or, do you believe they’ll miss the playoffs?

I say OKC misses the playoffs before Cleveland does.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby spree#8 » January 21, 2018, 1:00 pm

shakespeare wrote:
1) Do you believe Lue has lost the team?
2) What EC team do you believe can defeat them in the playoffs?
3) Or, do you believe they’ll miss the playoffs?

I say OKC misses the playoffs before Cleveland does.


1) I believe that Lue isn't a good coach. They should've been closer to the Warriors in last year's finals than they were. Whether he has lost them in the meantime or not, I don't know. but their effort stinks (they have the 3rd worst defense), so he surely isn't inspiring them to get any closer to the Warriors now.

2) If they get their act together, likely not. But that's not the question I asked: I asked whether you still think they will be an improved version compared to last year, which was the initial statement of this thread. Losing - let's say to the Celtics without Hayward - would be embarrassing, no? And just getting to the Finals without having a better chance to win is not the accomplishment the Cavs are in it for.

I liken this team's state to the Timberwolves in 03-04 being better when Szczerbiak and Hudson were injured and the formula simply was big three (Garnett, Cassel, Sprewell) and role players getting the job done, with the TWolves struggles in 04-05 once roles were more up for grabs behind Garnett again. Getting the best out of a team through a clear structure was what worked. With this year's Cavs I miss the plan, the structure besides LeBron. Right now it looks more like big names thrown together.

3) No, why do you ask?
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby shakespeare » January 21, 2018, 1:19 pm

1) Agreed, to a certain extent. I don’t believe Lue is one of the better coaches in the league. I believe he’ll suffice as long as his players believe in him. But that can probably be said for most coaches around the league. I also agree with your statement that too many big name veterans with ego problems can be the death of a team, especially when LeBron has Wade back, regardless of the opposition.

2) Yes, I believe this team has a better chance of defeating Golden State in the playoffs than last season’s team, if Golden State can be defeated at all. Again, I don’t see the Cavs’ issue to be a talent issue. There’s something else taking place with this team. Hayward will be back for the playoffs. Book it.

3) Oh okay, I only asked because I know you’re a basketball mind. So once Cleveland enters the playoffs, then you understand there are no EC teams with any chance of winning 4 out of seven games against them. Celtics, maybe. But I saw enough of the Cavs vs Celtics series to realize Boston still has no answer for LeBron. Not to mention, Thomas and Crowder are gonna be motivated to stick it to Ainge.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby spree#8 » January 21, 2018, 1:33 pm

Yeah, Boston vs. Cleveland sure will be a great series (with or without Hayward) if it comes to that. Back to Cleveland: I think they signed the wrong people to get closer. Wade is great because of his connection with LeBron and a line-up with those two, Korver (coming off the bench with Wade), Love and a filler can still be a killer line-up. But: Rose and Calderon don't fit what they need to get better. They need a defender at the one that can shoot. Calderon can't defend and Rose can't neither and you also don't need his penetration because you have LeBron, Thomas and Wade.

Then at SF/PF: You get a Crowder, but don't use him as your 30plus minute workhorse?! Why? May have to do with signing Green, so I'm also not sure he is a good fit, although he could probably add something. But if you find a spot for him you devalue Thompson and/or Frye even more. Smith and Shumpert are also confused about what their role is. So lots of problems to see right now...

Just not seeing how they will be better than last year ATM and if things go wrong, Boston should give them hell and might have an opportunity to win 4 games. Not betting on the latter though. Especially: even if Hayward comes back for the playoffs, he will be in no shape to help them after missing the regular season.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby shakespeare » January 21, 2018, 3:19 pm

Agreed. Cavs need some shooters in the worse way. Not saying Korver isn’t a gunner, he is, but a shooter in a starting role in the backcourt night do wonders.

Derrick Rose acts like he’s disturbed. Not sure what’s his issue; it seems mental.
Calderon is a non-factor.
I wonder the same about Crowder, myself. He should be logging hella minutes. To me, he is the X-factor against Draymond Green. It might sound crazy, but I believe Golden State can be defeated if Cavs are able to take Green out of the series. Big “if,” but it’s easier than shutting down any combination of Curry, Thompson, Durant over the course of a series.
Shumpert is a non-factor, but might defend against Golden State, here and there.

Boston could sweep Cleveland, but I’d need to believe to see. LeBron is different, come playoff time.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby Koopa Troopa » January 22, 2018, 3:09 am

shakespeare wrote:Agreed. Cavs need some shooters in the worse way. Not saying Korver isn’t a gunner, he is, but a shooter in a starting role in the backcourt night do wonders.

Derrick Rose acts like he’s disturbed. Not sure what’s his issue; it seems mental.
Calderon is a non-factor.
I wonder the same about Crowder, myself. He should be logging hella minutes. To me, he is the X-factor against Draymond Green. It might sound crazy, but I believe Golden State can be defeated if Cavs are able to take Green out of the series. Big “if,” but it’s easier than shutting down any combination of Curry, Thompson, Durant over the course of a series.
Shumpert is a non-factor, but might defend against Golden State, here and there.

Boston could sweep Cleveland, but I’d need to believe to see. LeBron is different, come playoff time.


Jeff Green you didnt mention but whenever he plays he really doesnt seem to add anything. Not rotating on D, fairly useless on offense. And even from last year I felt the opposite about Crowder. To me Crowder's D was a bit overrated. Avery Bradley was the real defender. But I do think Crowder should be able to defend Draymond one on one....but thats not how GS plays :?

Whenever they are on TV I notice that once the defense is broken down its a wrap. The whole team gives up. For all the crap we give the Knicks, they are just bad or too slow. The Cavs just dont rotate once the first guy gets beat. It could be a similar deal as they are an older team, but they dont even try.
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby ISIAH_THOMAS » January 22, 2018, 5:15 pm

Cavs can't play defense

Thomas to small

Love bad

They got the worse defense in nba
TAKE THAT FOR DATA
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby H20Knick » January 22, 2018, 5:29 pm

i tried to tell people jae crowder was extremely overrated defensively. Just because he sucks offensively doesn't mean he's automatically good at defense
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Re: Cavs improved their team, as if that was possible

Postby ISIAH_THOMAS » January 22, 2018, 11:19 pm

The Cleveland Cavaliers held an emotional team meeting prior to Monday’s practice, where several players challenged the legitimacy of Kevin Love leaving OKC loss on Saturday ill and missing Sunday’s practice, league sources tell ESPN.

Via Woj
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