The Windy Shitty

[Mr. Glass]

Playoffs or not, the Bulls will be one of those teams trying to move some pieces this summer. How can the Knicks capitalize?

First, Rose or Butler have to go. With a combined salary (next year) of close to 40 million, one of them is kicking rocks. With Jimmy being the healthiest and most recent all-star, Rose could be done in Chi-town. Yeah, Butler may need off-season surgery too, but Tony Snell is also 6'7 and can play the 2! IDGAF what they do about filling their PG slot. We need an upgrade at Guard. A healthy version of any of the aforementioned three are better than what we have. So, anyone open to this:

Knicks get (from Chicago):

Derrick Rose
Joakim Noah

Bulls get (from New York):

Robin Lopez
Arron Afflalo
Jose Calderon
Sasha Vujacic
Langston Galloway

Trade Machine likes it, I like, and you like it! Will the Bulls? I say yes.

- Bulls get two expiring deals (Sasha and Gallow), another 16 million off the books the following year (Jose and Afflalo), and a shiny new Center in Robin (centerpiece). They get to dump Rose and allow Butler to shine full-time.

- Risk and reward for the Knicks. Rose may start collecting social security insurance soon (due to constant injuries), but he might actually have all that behind him too. Noah is a big question mark too. If healthy he could catapult us into contenders with his sheer heart and determination (see Kurt Thomas). Will make KP and Melo so much better too.

16/17 Knicks roster:

PG - Derrick Rose/Jerian Grant
SG - Tony Wroten/Best Available FA
SF - Carmelo Anthony/Derrick Williams
PF - Kristaps Porzingis/Kyle O'Quinn
C - Joakim Noah/Kevin Seraphin

This would mean that we still have the salary bump money (20 mil?) to spend on better backups and insurance for the oft injured. A second rounder or two might sweeten this, but we are talking about two injury prone dudes. Thoughts?

[Red]

I wouldn't mind Rose but I'm not convinced Phil would be cool with him.

I think things are actually going according to Phil's plan.

He's got 6'6" Wroten at the Point (reducing the need to inevitably overpay this summer).

6'7" Vujacic at SG if all else fails. He is our most prolific guard in terms of the triangle.


6'9" Melo at the 3 where he's now playing unselfish triangle ball and is here for the long haul.

7'3" KP with Melo is a +66!

And a 7' Robin who's familiar with the system.

I suspect Phil is also cool with AA being a 6th Man. DWill to Phil is young enough to mold and be a SF backup. He's even convinced that O'Quinn and Kevin Seraphin can hold down the backup big spots.

Phil won't overpay for any non-A-tier player. That was for last year.

I think Phil is more satisfied in terms of where he wants us headed than you think. If I had to bet I'd say Phil is primarily looking for an upgrade at SG and is content with all other positions.

His plan is build a foundation and wait until a top-notch Shooting Guard is available which is his system's linchpin.

[nazrmohamed]

Can we for just one second forget we're all Knicks fans and refrain from assuming guys who were cut multiple times, spent numerous time in the d-league and we got off the waiver wire are the answer to any of our problems? And I'm talking about Wroten. Look, I wanted to draft him a couple years back with our early second rounder, I think we grabbed Early but cmon people. It's highly likely he is barely am nba player. Im not gonna proclaim that hes garbage but I see guys talking like they expect him to start. They're are guys on our bench Id love to see start

[Mr3037]

I'd probably do this BUT I'm with nazr, lets chill the fuck out with Wroten being automatically our starting SG next season.

If after this trade thats the best we can do, then fair enough but let's see what happens 1st before giving him that spot before he's even played a min for us.

As much as I like the trade maybe this would be more 'likely'?

Knicks get (from Chicago):

Derrick Rose
Taj Gibson
Aaron Brooks
2016 1st rd pick from Sac
2016 2nd rd pick from Portland

Bulls get (from New York):

Carmelo Anthony
Jose Calderon

[big_j_NY]

Wroten just came off of ACL surgery, and now you're asking him to be the starter next season?!

Oh my god, Knicks fans still haven't learned their lesson with players coming off of knee injuries

[n8 the gr8]

Glass I think the trade checker was imagining this trade happening this season prior to the trade deadline. Noah and Sasha aren't under contract for the coming summer.

I'm interested in the idea but I'm not sure how I feel about Rose.

[Red]

Plenty of guards have returned from knee surgery, Shumpert being just one.

Look I'm not saying he's the answer, I'm saying when I account for:

Phil doesn't want a star guard
Phil played Calderón all year
Phil signed a 6'6 guard
Phil likes big guards

I equate more than likely Wroten who in most cases will be fine and running the point. And according to Wroten he's up and running which to me means early familiarity with the system. It is what it is. All signs point to Wroten.

It's more likely than Rose or Rondo for that matter.

[n8 the gr8]

I'm not sure about age/injury. I actually think Rose fits the triangle quite well. His mid-range game off the dribble and ability to be an ok spot-up 3 point shooter makes him able to fit into anything really.

[big_j_NY]

Plenty of guards have returned from knee surgery, Shumpert being just one.

Look I'm not saying he's the answer, I'm saying when I account for:

Phil doesn't want a star guard
Phil played Calderón all year
Phil signed a 6'6 guard
Phil likes big guards

I equate more than likely Wroten who in most cases will be fine and running the point. And according to Wroten he's up and running which to me means early familiarity with the system. It is what it is. All signs point to Wroten.

It's more likely than Rose or Rondo for that matter.

Lies.............it's not that Phil doesn't want a star guard. Phil will take a star guard, if he's a scoring phenom (i.e. Kobe and Jordan)......and you said it yourself in your own post, Phil likes big guards.

Basically if a star shooting guard is out there, Phil will be pulling all his chips in on a Top 5 SG before he touches any Top 10 PG available in market.

Rondo ain't a scoring phenom AND he is not tall, so we need to eliminate him from the scenario UNLESS Thibs is coaching this squad.

I love D-Rose, but everyone needs to quit hoping that Rose will return to MVP form..........especially on the Knicks' dime. The moment Rose enters free agency, I don't need the Knicks pulling another "Amare-esque" contract signing on D-Rose's knees as he approaches the age of 30.

Wroten is fine, but depending on "recovering knee surgical" players to START for you from the gate has always been a disaster for this franchise

Can we for just one second forget we're all Knicks fans and refrain from assuming guys who were cut multiple times, spent numerous time in the d-league and we got off the waiver wire are the answer to any of our problems? And I'm talking about Wroten. Look, I wanted to draft him a couple years back with our early second rounder, I think we grabbed Early but cmon people. It's highly likely he is barely am nba player. Im not gonna proclaim that hes garbage but I see guys talking like they expect him to start. They're are guys on our bench Id love to see start

[Mr3037]

If we are looking for guards who can score heavy and are at least tall-ish your 'realistic' list for next season is as follows:

DeRozan

That's pretty much it

[Red]

Lies.............it's not that Phil doesn't want a star guard. Phil will take a star guard, if he's a scoring phenom (i.e. Kobe and Jordan)......and you said it yourself in your own post, Phil likes big guards.

Basically if a star shooting guard is out there, Phil will be pulling all his chips in on a Top 5 SG before he touches any Top 10 PG available in market.

Rondo ain't a scoring phenom AND he is not tall, so we need to eliminate him from the scenario UNLESS Thibs is coaching this squad.

I love D-Rose, but everyone needs to quit hoping that Rose will return to MVP form..........especially on the Knicks' dime. The moment Rose enters free agency, I don't need the Knicks pulling another "Amare-esque" contract signing on D-Rose's knees as he approaches the age of 30.

Wroten is fine, but depending on "recovering knee surgical" players to START for you from the gate has always been a disaster for this franchise

Big_j_NY I know you understood I meant pg and you just repeated what I said that Phil's real priority is SG... of course he'll take a scoring phenom sg! Who wouldn't?

I have dealt with knee injuries in my past; I am always of the mindset that a player coming off injury will never be the same until I actually see it. But you can't deny players coming back from knee injuries in the nba are numerous. Numerous!

Now consider that "fans" will always fantasize about getting the best and the Knicks always don't so I'd say Wroten at this point (I'm going to look for his quotes that he can play now, maybe not at 100% but he's up already) is the "most likely scenario".

Want to put odds?

[Mr. Glass]

If we are looking for guards who can score heavy and are at least tall-ish your 'realistic' list for next season is as follows:

DeRozan

That's pretty much it

Thanks Mr3037! DeRozan leads me right into a bigger point about Phil Jackson and his prototypical players. I don' think Phil realizes that his magical offense and grand Phil-osophies may actually be excluding players that are physically competent, but may not consider themselves "smart" enough to master this system. Especially Guards. Look at last summer's acquisitions. Would you consider any of them low-IQ? Maybe KOQ but he's blue collar.

I'm the type of fan that's looking at more than just the game. Call me a hater but DeRozan is not winning any spelling bees, and Derrick Rose couldn’t pass a blood test if he was stabbed in the neck.

So, does Phil overlook the non-cerebral types? The shit I've read via Charlie Rose would indicate he does, but the bigger picture is that these PLAYERS may not be considering Phil.

A consistent penetrating Guard at either 1 or 2 is what we need. Somebody call Westbrook!

[Mr. Glass]

@ Red - I agree, Phil is probably satisfied building our foundation. I'd be cool with this if we were a .500 ball club!

[shakespeare]

I'd pass on Rose and Noah. I like both of these injury-riddled former All-Stars, but they're not what we need.

We need a legit 2nd scorer and a legit defender on the perimeter.

Legit 2nd scorer or Tank 2017.

[Red]

Is KP not a legit 2nd scorer?

[Mr3037]

Call me a hater but DeRozan is not winning any spelling bees, and Derrick Rose couldn’t pass a blood test if he was stabbed in the neck.

This killed me Glass bwahahahhaa

[big_j_NY]

Is KP not a legit 2nd scorer?

He meant legit 2nd scorer for KP................

[Don Che]

Grant will work on his jumper and take the starting spot next year.

the place to upgrade is the 2 spot and bench.


I think we go at Demar...and Batum...and if we fail...we stand pat an make a minor move at that spot like we did with getting Jerian while having Jose.

I just wonder if Melo would stay if we strike out.

As flawed as this roster is...i still say we can keep 5-7 guys its really just about placing them where they belong....revamp the starting guards in house or otherwise and you'll see a playoff team(coach change included)

Afflalo and Jose would be great additions off the bench with Wroten in there.

Get a guard that can shoot it mainly...hopefully be a playmaker also and you'll see Grant really create for himself and others.

Dumbest thing teams do is clog an asset w/o trully allowing it the flourish...it would be like signing Jason Kidd when Tony Parker was coming into his own(Spurs didnt make that move) ...Obv Grant is no Parker but Jose is no Kidd..the concept is the same...if you have a rookie that shows talent and a good mind state with work ethic it would be stupid to sign a guy to start over him unless its a flat out STUD...and there are none of those PG's this offseason.

[n8 the gr8]

Grant will work on his jumper and take the starting spot next year.

the place to upgrade is the 2 spot and bench.


I think we go at Demar...and Batum...and if we fail...we stand pat an make a minor move at that spot like we did with getting Jerian while having Jose.

I just wonder if Melo would stay if we strike out.

As flawed as this roster is...i still say we can keep 5-7 guys its really just about placing them where they belong....revamp the starting guards in house or otherwise and you'll see a playoff team(coach change included)

Afflalo and Jose would be great additions off the bench with Wroten in there.

Get a guard that can shoot it mainly...hopefully be a playmaker also and you'll see Grant really create for himself and others.

Dumbest thing teams do is clog an asset w/o trully allowing it the flourish...it would be like signing Jason Kidd when Tony Parker was coming into his own(Spurs didnt make that move) ...Obv Grant is no Parker but Jose is no Kidd..the concept is the same...if you have a rookie that shows talent and a good mind state with work ethic it would be stupid to sign a guy to start over him unless its a flat out STUD...and there are none of those PG's this offseason.

I wish I had your confidence in Grant. With the Wroten signing and given that I think Calderon gives the team more from his position than Afflalo does I just think there are too many variables to say now. Phil is going to have to get a pulse for how hard people are working in July and make a guess based on that. I hope you're right about Grant, I think it's a best-case scenario.

[bobhait]

I'd rather not include Robin Lopez in a potential trade. so, take him and Noah off the table, insert Lance Thomas