Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby StevoStarks » May 16, 2018, 12:46 pm

taowave wrote:I dont undertand why Clarkson and Hood get no PT...


Definitely Clarkson. I thought he was a major piece in that trade. Fuck, if I were Lue I'd be starting him in the backcourt either over JR or Hill. He has to shake up that pathetic backcourt because Rozier and Brown are destroying Cleveland.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby spree#8 » May 16, 2018, 2:21 pm

I'll say what I always say when the underdog of a series takes a 2-0 lead at home: nothing has happened yet! Cavs still need just one win on the road if they can protect their homecourt against a young team that has just one road win so far in these playoffs.

The good thing though - for those of us that hope, that the Celtics can pull this off - the pressure is now on the Cavs.

To the game: impressive start by LeBron and the Cavs, but the Celtics weathered the storm and were fantastic in the second half. Cavs lack an identity. No one besides James, Love and Korver had any offensive impact. Role players usually are more confident at home, so they have to hope that they can get going as a team in Cleveland and take more confidence as a group back to Boston. Otherwise the surprise will take its turn.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby big_j_NY » May 16, 2018, 2:41 pm

taowave wrote:I dont undertand why Clarkson and Hood get no PT...


Clarkson is slightly overrated as a player, this is dating back to his Laker days as well.

The kid is a great ball-handler and decent shooter for his size, but an absolute poor defender (which can be improved upon obviously at his age) AND his basketball IQ is still lacking........which is the result of his poor defense.

Rodney Hood is the more shocking one for me, considering he does have all the defensive prowess that Clarkson currently lacks...........then again, there was some small rumors in the NBA rumor mill that Hood & Lue are butting heads at the moment.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby taowave » May 16, 2018, 2:43 pm

Can it be worse than Swish?
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby Don Che » May 16, 2018, 3:28 pm

watching the last 4 teams left

does it give you guys any ideas on how to build the knicks team? i tend to do that every year just seeing the last 4 and think which rout we are going in a sense.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby spree#8 » May 16, 2018, 3:39 pm

taowave wrote:The supporting squad around Bron makes the Knicks look like comtenders...

Not sure what Lue is doing with Jr....

Guy brings ZERO to the table...


I don't get how it always is "LeBron's supporting cast is shit". Nope. The Cavs moves this season initially even lead to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39949

Even though it doesn't look like it'll be proven right and was questioned by some of us (including me), they have veterans till their 11th guy in the rotation and are at full strength. They haven't figured out yet how to be a consistent team though. They haven't figured out how to play the best team ball they can on offense and how to compete every possession on defense. Which is their problem for a long time. They can still make the finals by protecting their homecourt and getting one win in Boston (which I still would expect), but even if they do I hope that they finally start to ask the right questions. How to become a close-knit team? How to get the most out of everyone on the court? How to get the most from the coaching staff? How can we play the best we are capable of as a group? If they always just ask for "a better supporting cast", they likely won't close the gap to the Warriors.

From a talent standpoint - current, not future - there is IMO no excuse for them not beating the Celtics without Irving and Hayward. Other than: not having done their job this year.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby taowave » May 16, 2018, 3:40 pm

Boston( and Philly )had multiple top 3 picks......We dont

Golden State is on another planet..We aren't emulating them,nor are we pulling off the Houston model......Would be nice to have some shooters on the wing

We are not even close in any way shape or form to the last 4 teams...

I thought Utah or N.O were the models that we could realistically follow...












Don Che wrote:watching the last 4 teams left

does it give you guys any ideas on how to build the knicks team? i tend to do that every year just seeing the last 4 and think which rout we are going in a sense.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby taowave » May 16, 2018, 3:46 pm

Spree,its not always Brons supporting cast is shit..You know better than that..

And i was the first to say i was dead wrong regarding the Isiah Thomas trade to the celts..I thought it was a really good trade for the Cavs...

Clarkson isnt playing..Hood is getting virtually no time..Geoge Hill is old...JR Smith is nowhere to be found,and Tristian Thompson looks like he would rather be elsewhere..

maybe it is Lue???

The Knicks offer Bron more than his current team mates,and you know how I feel about the Knicks






spree#8 wrote:
I don't get how it always is "LeBron's supporting cast is shit". Nope. The Cavs moves this season initially even lead to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39949

Even though it doesn't look like it'll be proven right and was questioned by some of us (including me), they have veterans till their 11th guy in the rotation and are at full strength. They haven't figured out yet how to be a consistent team though. They haven't figured out how to play the best team ball they can on offense and how to compete every possession on defense. Which is their problem for a long time. They can still make the finals by protecting their homecourt and getting one win in Boston (which I still would expect), but even if they do I hope that they finally start to ask the right questions. How to become a close-knit team? How to get the most out of everyone on the court? How to get the most from the coaching staff? How can we play the best we are capable of as a group? If they always just ask for "a better supporting cast", they likely won't close the gap to the Warriors.

From a talent standpoint - current, not future - there is IMO no excuse for them not beating the Celtics without Irving and Hayward. Other than: not having done their job this year.
Last edited by taowave on May 16, 2018, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby spree#8 » May 16, 2018, 3:52 pm

taowave wrote:Boston( and Philly )had multiple top 3 picks......We dont

Golden State is on another planet..We aren't emulating them,nor are we pulling off the Houston model......Would be nice to have some shooters on the wing

We are not even close in any way shape or form to the last 4 teams...

I thought Utah or N.O were the models that we could realistically follow...



You look at it the wrong way. Boston is looking fantastic just with their 2 young no. 3 picks, a number 16 pick (Rozier) that made his strides in his 3rd year and one free agent signing (Horford) plus role players. We have KP, Ntilikina, this year's no. 9 and likely a higher pick in 2019 as the main young pieces, plus some lower-level talent that still can turn out very well like Hardaway, Burke or Mudiay. The point is, you go with high level young talent, play hard and you likely will attract FAs (Horford for example was attracted already by lower level hard working talent in Thomas, Bradley and Crowder) or can use such talent in trades (like the one for Irving).

We are far away, but the Celtics are still a very good model to look at for getting young talent to play at a high level (even the years before with lower-level talent), not being obsessed with going through the lottery themselves and then not stopping to swing the fences in building your roster (they just have 4 returning players from a conference finalist) until you feel great about your core. Maybe it is not the initial core, but the one thereafter. Time, patience and skill needed, but we finally started a good path.

People easily forget when Ainge started this. They are not in year 1, they are in year 5 of their rebuild.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby taowave » May 16, 2018, 4:11 pm

True and False...

Great GM's capitalise on exceedingly rare opportunities...Ainge did so with the Nets,Phil missed with Melo.West most likely made a very sound move with Griffin..
That trade directly led to Tatum,Brown and Kyrie...

Number 9's do not excite me..Doesnt mean you cant hit the statistical outlier,but we have not...KP is a question mark(knee),Frank is far from proven(and i like him)...For some odd reason,you seem to place top 3 picks in the same category as 9th and 10th picks.. The Celts are largely built on Ainge capitalising on Kings foolhardiness....Yes they attracted free agents,in part due to Stevens,in part they were a solid team,not a 50 loss team..

And what were the odds that Cle would get the 8th pick from Boston via the nets?? The Celts essentially got Kyrie for the number 8 pick

Ainge is GOOD

I get your point,but Boston had the luxury of winning while getting the Nets picks...We certainly dont have that luxury


spree#8 wrote:
You look at it the wrong way. Boston is looking fantastic just with their 2 young no. 3 picks, a number 16 pick (Rozier) that made his strides in his 3rd year and one free agent signing (Horford) plus role players. We have KP, Ntilikina, this year's no. 9 and likely a higher pick in 2019 as the main young pieces, plus some lower-level talent that still can turn out very well like Hardaway, Burke or Mudiay. The point is, you go with high level young talent, play hard and you likely will attract FAs (Horford for example was attracted already by lower level hard working talent in Thomas, Bradley and Crowder) or can use such talent in trades (like the one for Irving).

We are far away, but the Celtics are still a very good model to look at for getting young talent to play at a high level (even the years before with lower-level talent), not being obsessed with going through the lottery themselves and then not stopping to swing the fences in building your roster (they just have 4 returning players from a conference finalist) until you feel great about your core. Maybe it is not the initial core, but the one thereafter. Time, patience and skill needed, but we finally started a good path.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby Don Che » May 16, 2018, 4:40 pm

Brown/Rozier/Smart being a part of a winning culture def helped their development to not be afraid in big moments. I think thats whay JVG/Perry and other pro playoff guys were saying when we were in the playoff hunt.

but i dont see his talent level and think "theres no way we can get this talent at 9"

as we build this team acquiring new young talent its our coaches jobs to have our younger guys progress within that time.

i think building a team like the Celtics are this split second is possible...meaning w/o KP being involved in the process.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby spree#8 » May 16, 2018, 4:45 pm

taowave wrote:True and False...

Great GM's capitalise on exceedingly rare opportunities...Ainge did so with the Nets,Phil missed with Melo.West most likely made a very sound move with Griffin..
That trade directly led to Tatum,Brown and Kyrie...

Number 9's do not excite me..Doesnt mean you cant hit the statistical outlier,but we have not...KP is a question mark(knee),Frank is far from proven(and i like him)...For some odd reason,you seem to place top 3 picks in the same category as 9th and 10th picks.. The Celts are largely built on Ainge capitalising on Kings foolhardiness....Yes they attracted free agents,in part due to Stevens,in part they were a solid team,not a 50 loss team..

And what were the odds that Cle would get the 8th pick from Boston via the nets?? The Celts essentially got Kyrie for the number 8 pick

Ainge is GOOD

I get your point,but Boston had the luxury of winning while getting the Nets picks...We certainly dont have that luxury


No. I'm saying KP and the 2019 pick should be as good for us as Tatum and Brown are for Boston if all goes according to plan and 9th picks can be the guys that net you another high level talent via trade or help via rounding out a young core to attract FAs. You have to look long-term at what we can do over the next five years, not compare us with them now. The lesson is also - and I repeat myself - that none of the successful franchises went with the "let's tank multiple years ourselves"-plan, which is no real plan, because you waste time you need to develop your players. You bring young talent in and develop it to get on the right path. If you have found a diamond (like Curry at 7), you start building and don't look back. If your best player is injured (like KP is now), or you just drafted such a guy, you can choose to strategically tank for one or another season, but then it's building up again without looking back unless you think that KP and that 2019 pick are not the guys you want to start your rebuild with. Then you trade them before everyone else does think that too. A rejuvenated KP can still be the first foundation piece one way or the other.

As a GM you have to be focused and you have to understand that with or without KP this might take at least 4 to 5 more years, before we can dream of contending. As I just wrote: maybe it is the core thereafter and not the one now.

You hate number 9s, but a few of them might be exactly the trade pieces we need or might be the young depth we need to become an attractive up and coming team. The lesson is, that the plan can't be let's trade every asset we have other than KP to get a second or first star and then try to build around KP and that second guy with no other young talent left. The lesson is also not to tank year in and year out. Instead let's get five or six highly young talented guys in here even if we don't think that any of them will definitely become a star. We have to start to look more at long-term building, at development, instead of trying to hit homeruns right away via the draft or free agency or in trades. That's why I say again and again that we have to get more young talent in and develop it, before we can start to think about trading for a star or something like this.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby taowave » May 16, 2018, 5:06 pm

Spree,I agree with you,but can not stomach 5 more years of mediocrity..Yes,that's my problem and I am fully aware of it :)

You are correct,there are diamonds like Curry,Michelle,Kawai and Draymond..We need some luck,and of course a shrewd GM..

FYI,I think Frank can be a very good point guard,and am thrilled he's going to be here for most of the summer.. Hopefully he hangs out and plays with Chris Paul..





spree#8 wrote:
No. I'm saying KP and the 2019 pick should be as good for us as Tatum and Brown are for Boston if all goes according to plan and 9th picks can be the guys that net you another high level talent via trade or help via rounding out a young core to attract FAs. You have to look long-term at what we can do over the next five years, not compare us with them now. The lesson is also - and I repeat myself - that none of the successful franchises went with the "let's tank multiple years ourselves"-plan, which is no real plan, because you waste time you need to develop your players. You bring young talent in and develop it to get on the right path. If you have found a diamond (like Curry at 7), you start building and don't look back. If your best player is injured (like KP is now), or you just drafted such a guy, you can choose to strategically tank for one or another season, but then it's building up again without looking back unless you think that KP and that 2019 pick are not the guys you want to start your rebuild with. Then you trade them before everyone else does think that too. A rejuvenated KP can still be the first foundation piece one way or the other.

As a GM you have to be focused and you have to understand that with or without KP this might take at least 4 to 5 more years, before we can dream of contending. As I just wrote: maybe it is the core thereafter and not the one now.

You hate number 9s, but a few of them might be exactly the trade pieces we need or might be the young depth we need to become an attractive up and coming team. The lesson is, that the plan can't be let's trade every asset we have other than KP to get a second or first star and then try to build around KP and that second guy with no other young talent left. The lesson is also not to tank year in and year out. Instead let's get five or six highly young talented guys in here even if we don't think that any of them will definitely become a star. We have to start to look more at long-term building, at development, instead of trying to hit homeruns right away via the draft or free agency or in trades. That's why I say again and again that we have to get more young talent in and develop it, before we can start to think about trading for a star or something like this.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby spree#8 » May 16, 2018, 5:11 pm

taowave wrote:Spree,I agree with you,but can not stomach 5 more years of mediocrity..Yes,that's my problem and I am fully aware of it :)

You are correct,there are diamonds like Curry,Michelle,Kawai and Draymond..We need some luck,and of course a shrewd GM..

FYI,I think Frank can be a very good point guard,and am thrilled he's going to be here for most of the summer.. Hopefully he hangs out and plays with Chris Paul..



Yeah, hopefully we become lucky here and there. I mean, I knew how bad our odds yesterday were and still was sitting anxiously in front of my laptop watching the lottery. First there was relief that we didn't slip to 10th and then a few seconds disappointment when we were shown 9th...
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby Don Che » May 16, 2018, 5:18 pm

all this noise boils down to the GM and coaches developing our young guys.

and maximizing the talent we acquire. I just hope Perry gets young talent that fit Fiz' vision and Fiz coaches them up and the players have enough will to put the work in.

if we that overall theory we should be a good team soon. so defense and 3 point shooting is Fiz' jam..Perry better get those guys ready.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby H20Knick » May 17, 2018, 10:12 am

Don Che wrote:all this noise boils down to the GM and coaches developing our young guys.

and maximizing the talent we acquire. I just hope Perry gets young talent that fit Fiz' vision and Fiz coaches them up and the players have enough will to put the work in.

if we that overall theory we should be a good team soon. so defense and 3 point shooting is Fiz' jam..Perry better get those guys ready.


well if it makes you feel any worse...

Rookie comparison: Tatum: 43.4% from 3 vs Ntilikina 31.8% from 3
Franchise big comparison: Horford: 42.9% from 3 vs Porzingis 39.5% from 3
Loudmouth young wing comparison: Brown: 39.5% from 3 vs THJ 31.7% from 3
Lateblooming early 20s PG comparison: Rozier: 38.1% vs Mudiay 19.6% from 3
Starting PG comparison: Irving: 40.8% vs Burke: 36.2% from 3

they're arguably better defensively at every position too.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby Don Che » May 17, 2018, 11:12 am

lol @ having Irving in the same sentence as Burke.


but i dont feel worse we arent in the playoffs. Boston is.

we need ALOT of work on the wing. Hopefully we can land a wing at 9 and trade into this draft for another or a gem slips to 37.

looking at defense first.

Frank at the 1- KP at the 5. Frank was ranked high in pick and roll defense. KP was ranked high in protecting the rim.

but defending the perimeter needs to be addressed in the worst way. this offseason and next is getting better from 2-4....Tim can start and get his and maybe he becomes that guy or not but he'll have his chance.

also possible for Dotson to come in and take it also because he fits everything Fiz likes to do..and unlike Tim he actually rebounds and is a bit more physical..just not as polished as Tim as yet.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby taowave » May 17, 2018, 12:08 pm

We need work where we don't need work

So we are in agreement in KP at the 5...

I lean ever so slightly to the "French Pastry" at the 1,assuming he can show some form of life on offense..

I assume we will draft a wing,but rolling with Dotson/Troy is liveable..Anyone but Hardaway...(Not sure how we are paying a dude 18 mil that has worse numbers per 36 than guys making peanuts)





Don Che wrote:lol @ having Irving in the same sentence as Burke.


but i dont feel worse we arent in the playoffs. Boston is.

we need ALOT of work on the wing. Hopefully we can land a wing at 9 and trade into this draft for another or a gem slips to 37.

looking at defense first.

Frank at the 1- KP at the 5. Frank was ranked high in pick and roll defense. KP was ranked high in protecting the rim.

but defending the perimeter needs to be addressed in the worst way. this offseason and next is getting better from 2-4....Tim can start and get his and maybe he becomes that guy or not but he'll have his chance.

also possible for Dotson to come in and take it also because he fits everything Fiz likes to do..and unlike Tim he actually rebounds and is a bit more physical..just not as polished as Tim as yet.
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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby big_j_NY » May 17, 2018, 5:13 pm

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Re: Official ‘18 Playoffs Thread

Postby Don Che » May 17, 2018, 5:41 pm

Yeh we agree on Tim as well but based on how much hes being paid hes in the mix.

I'm looking at Frank at the 1 just for defense..if we get a 2 or 3 that is the main playmaker would be ideal but overall I'm looking at defense first and offense second.

I'm a big fan of Dotson...idt he will start because of a couple reasons but I do hope he makes the rotation.

Mikal/Miles is going to be the wing we draft...all things are leading to that.

only good thing is this roster is build for our rookie to take a lot of shots..role players and set up guys are in place...if a score first rookie comes here he will have every chance to put up big numbers.
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