[Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby nazrmohamed » April 6, 2017, 10:13 pm

StevoStarks wrote:I'm still concerned about Monk's size at the 2 spot meshing with the NBA 2 guard sizes. Should I not? There's no way he slides over to the PG spot so can he handle being guarded and most likely guarding NBA 2's?

There's no doubt the kid us super talented.


I think he could slide to the pg spot. He's listed as a PG/SG. If you put him up against pure pgs in this draft he might come up short but then again, what are they all pure at? Playing styles we don't really employ. We need shooters and he's probably the best shooter at his level in this draft. And don't forget he's pretty athletic and is a good finisher.

Perhaps he'll be the first pg to actually walk up to Clyde and ask him for some advise.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby shakespeare » April 7, 2017, 8:48 am

Lemme ask: If Monk was a point guard, would that make him a better NBA prospect? I'm seeing him listed at 6'3" but he's probably more like 6'2", if anything. This appears to be the same conversation that took place among basketball purists before Miami drafted Wade. I vaguely recall Bosh and Chris Kaman being Miami's preferred choice until Riley dropped in the lottery. It turned out to be one of the best things to happen to the Heat franchise.

Monk won't be as effective in the league as a short shooting guard. But while watching this Jordan Brand video featuring him and Fox, it seems he can play the point guard position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrwtxCz ... ture=share

Monk has a Vince Carter-like vertical, though.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby H20Knick » April 7, 2017, 10:51 am

shakespeare wrote:Lemme ask: If Monk was a point guard, would that make him a better NBA prospect? I'm seeing him listed at 6'3" but he's probably more like 6'2", if anything. This appears to be the same conversation that took place among basketball purists before Miami drafted Wade. I vaguely recall Bosh and Chris Kaman being Miami's preferred choice until Riley dropped in the lottery. It turned out to be one of the best things to happen to the Heat franchise.

Monk won't be as effective in the league as a short shooting guard. But while watching this Jordan Brand video featuring him and Fox, it seems he can play the point guard position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrwtxCz ... ture=share

Monk has a Vince Carter-like vertical, though.


Of course that's true. But he won't be a pass-first pg. Which is okay with everyone but those who thinks the offense, team, organization, fanbase, media, city, state, continent, hemisphere, planet, solar system, galaxy, and nebula need to revolve around porzingis.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby thewatcher » April 7, 2017, 12:21 pm

Stephan Curry is a good PG, and no bigger than Monk. Monk is more athletic. But that's how well Monk shoots the basketball. Fox diminished his talents in the tournament. Only when he had no choice, facing elimination, and he calmly nails two impossible shots. He has more to give than what we saw.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby cragganmor » April 7, 2017, 1:12 pm

if monk can build on top of his freakish shooting skills and vertical, then he could have a pretty good career. I'd say he needs to tighten up his handle and be a more consistent defender. he definitely has the tools, most of the skills, not afraid. need to see his decision making and work ethic.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby shakespeare » April 7, 2017, 3:14 pm

H20Knick wrote:
Of course that's true. But he won't be a pass-first pg. Which is okay with everyone but those who thinks the offense, team, organization, fanbase, media, city, state, continent, hemisphere, planet, solar system, galaxy, and nebula need to revolve around porzingis.


I'm over here in tears, laughing. Probably the funniest post I've ever read on NYKFP. Good one.

Ever since I read that Phil Jackson had targeted Monk (and Ntilikina), I've pretty much read every known article and watched YouTube clips of his highlights. I really don't think New York would make a bad decision via drafting him.

Most likely, Monk will initially struggle. But I think once he became adjusted to his role on the team, he'd take off. I can't really name the last time New York had a point guard that could hit the long ball with consistency and dunk on opponents.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby big_j_NY » April 7, 2017, 3:18 pm

shakespeare wrote:I'm over here in tears, laughing. Probably the funniest post I've ever read on NYKFP. Good one.

Ever since I read that Phil Jackson had targeted Monk (and Ntilikina), I've pretty much read every known article and watched YouTube clips of his highlights. I really don't think New York would make a bad decision via drafting him.

Most likely, Monk will initially struggle. But I think once he became adjusted to his role on the team, he'd take off. I can't really name the last time New York had a point guard that could hit the long ball with consistency and dunk on opponents.


I can't either......at least with the word "consistency" in your sentence. Even the best Knick PGs in the last 20 years or so could do neither on a consistent basis. They were either a streaky shooter or inconsistently athletic. You can't even factor Linsanity in your criteria either because Lin could only dunk every once in awhile and his 3 pt shot was also inconsistent.

It'd be exciting if this year's draft turns out to be the first time the Knicks ever draft such A GUARD that can do both.......plus pass.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby Don Che » April 7, 2017, 3:21 pm

whats the difference between Lou Williams/Ben Gordon and Wade?

Defense and playmaking...2 things Monk hasnt shown he can do...maybe he can..maybe he can't

while your post is hilarious it has nothing to do with KP..it has to do with winning basketball...playmaking is the most important aspectof the NBA today as a team concept.

Your not a top 10 player at the 3/2/1 spots unless you can pass the ball along with scoring.

Monk can drop 20 any night..thats cool but when that jumper is flat..when the game slows down and teams clamp up...what can you do to be effective?

Can you get other guys good shots? can you stop a all star PG from torching you? that stuff matters and when i see Monk play i dont see him checking those boxes.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby shakespeare » April 7, 2017, 3:29 pm

thewatcher wrote:Stephan Curry is a good PG, and no bigger than Monk. Monk is more athletic. But that's how well Monk shoots the basketball. Fox diminished his talents in the tournament. Only when he had no choice, facing elimination, and he calmly nails two impossible shots. He has more to give than what we saw.


I'm starting to believe the same. There's no doubt in my mind that, maybe 3-4 years down the line, regardless of what team drafts Monk, he could average 20ppg with relative ease.

If true, I sorta understand why Phil Jackson targeted Monk, seeing as how the Triangle Offense doesn't rely on a ball-dominant point guard to make all the decisions. I don't know a lot about the offense, but it seems like Monk's skill-set is ready-made for the Triangle?

I've always viewed Curry as a shooting guard playing the point guard position, so that comparison works for me, especially in the Triangle. Based on the lack of a ball-dominant point guard, isn't it safe to say the offense is consistent with basically two shooting guards in the backcourt?
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby shakespeare » April 7, 2017, 3:35 pm

cragganmor wrote:if monk can build on top of his freakish shooting skills and vertical, then he could have a pretty good career. I'd say he needs to tighten up his handle and be a more consistent defender. he definitely has the tools, most of the skills, not afraid. need to see his decision making and work ethic.


That's the next thing I plan to focus on in the YouTube highlights: Monk's handles. I'll probably watch a few entire games as well. Not sure if he'll ever be a good defender, but "he can't be any worse than Calderon or Rose."

Note: It's sad that as a Knick fan the measuring stick for whether a backcourt player can defend is "well, he can't be any worse than Calderon or Rose."

Good call: Need to see his work ethic. AGREED. All the talent in the world means nothing if not combined with a good work ethic.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby shakespeare » April 7, 2017, 3:43 pm

big_j_NY wrote:
It'd be exciting if this year's draft turns out to be the first time the Knicks ever draft such A GUARD that can do both.......plus pass.


DEFINITELY.
It'd make my day as a Knick fan. I like that you wrote guard in all caps, cause it doesn't matter if it's a "point guard" or a "shooting guard," I'd be excited just to see a Knickerbocker backcourt player do things I'd never seen any do, consistently, since maybe Jamal Crawford?

I know Marbury could shoot the long ball and dunk, but I don't recall seeing him dunk with consistency. He probably was washed after the first year in New York, anyway.

If I'm not mistaken, I recall Nate Robinson being a deadly long ball-shooter during his first two years in New York. He was a short, well, mini-sized, shooting guard too, really.
Last edited by shakespeare on April 7, 2017, 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby shakespeare » April 7, 2017, 4:00 pm

Don Che wrote:
Defense and playmaking...2 things Monk hasnt shown he can do...maybe he can..maybe he can't

Can you get other guys good shots? can you stop a all star PG from torching you? that stuff matters and when I see Monk play I don't see him checking those boxes.


I don't think he'll ever be a top-notch defender. If motivated, I think he can stay in front of his man, but that's about it. The playmaking might come, eventually. Then again, it might not.

Still, for some reason, I just don't see him being the "backcourt version of Carmelo Anthony" that you just described.

But I agree: Monk's defense and playmaking skills are two qualities that awaits to be seen via whatever NBA team drafts him. To be projected so low, maybe the projectors don't think he'll amount to anything other than a shorter version of Jamal Crawford.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby Don Che » April 7, 2017, 5:40 pm

Its all about what his coach demands of him/his ability to be coached/his work ethic and commitment to the team game.

Kawhi had those things..he succeeded...guys with more talent than him failed in plenty of instances.

Monk can either be Lou Williams or a All Star

personally I wouldnt take that risk but im not in the workouts/interviews

KP off first glance was a huge risk...but i didnt see his love for the game and fight in his game until we had him already.

Isaac/Fultz/Monk/DSJR are the most talented guys in this draft. Just looking at tools and how easy the game looks for them...but their mental capacity/fight and role on the team they go to will depict their futures just as much as their own work they put it.

long story short, I dont want Monk but if Phil meets him and sees the fight/hunger to be great and focus and says thats why we take him i'll trust it.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby nazrmohamed » April 7, 2017, 8:28 pm

Don Che wrote:whats the difference between Lou Williams/Ben Gordon and Wade?

Defense and playmaking...2 things Monk hasnt shown he can do...maybe he can..maybe he can't

while your post is hilarious it has nothing to do with KP..it has to do with winning basketball...playmaking is the most important aspectof the NBA today as a team concept.

Your not a top 10 player at the 3/2/1 spots unless you can pass the ball along with scoring.

Monk can drop 20 any night..thats cool but when that jumper is flat..when the game slows down and teams clamp up...what can you do to be effective?

Can you get other guys good shots? can you stop a all star PG from torching you? that stuff matters and when i see Monk play i dont see him checking those boxes.


Yeah but there's a difference between being put in those situations and failing, and us just not having the sample size to see it. I can't answer that question cuz he plays next to what to me is a top 3 true PG.

It's like saying Eric Bledsoe didn't check those boxes playing next to John Wall. Perhaps if Fox want on that team itd be Monk who got those opportunities. Or its also simply that at the college level where that height matters less he's just such a dominant off ball player that they wouldve just elevated Briscoe and Monk wouldve done the same.

Right now Ill just leave it that he's a question mark that really can't be answered until the combine and team workouts. But as I've said, Phil couldn't care less if you look like CP3. If CP3 ain't a triangle pg but say.....(and I still wanna pick a good guard) Kyrie is, then Kyrie is the right pg. And not because he's actually better but because he fits the system which will MAKE HIM better. <and Idk that kyrie is even a triangle pg, I just couldn't think of one right now>

Essentially, in NY and perhaps NY alone, Monk might be a great PG.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby Don Che » April 8, 2017, 1:14 pm

I see your point and agree with it. I rememeber Phil saying Curry would kill in the triangle...Monk is in that mold

But my main point outside of play making is defense.....Bledsoe had to prove he was a PG on offense but from day 1 with Cal he proved he can defend anyone at that position if Monk was lockin dudes up I'd draft him and never look back.

Its just weird because Monk wasn't the secondary playmaker either so it was very hard to tell.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby Don Che » April 8, 2017, 1:19 pm

If you draft Monk.....to me that means you have to get a SG that can passeven a SF that does also

You can't have guys with high usage rate on your team not move the ball....rose Melo and KP just showed us that doesn't work
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby n8 the gr8 » April 8, 2017, 6:10 pm

Don Che wrote:If you draft Monk.....to me that means you have to get a SG that can passeven a SF that does also

You can't have guys with high usage rate on your team not move the ball....rose Melo and KP just showed us that doesn't work

Part of my train of thought, which might settle into a more tangible question after the lottery, is whether or not there's going to be a tradeoff between "fit" with KP and talent. I don't think Monk is so good that I'm just going to say "forget about KP" and the fit to me questionable. As we've seen it's hard to build a team around 2 really good players with the same weaknesses. Fox and Frank are both more versatile defenders and better passers that are going to do more to sure up the perimeter defense. For me to be sold on Monk you'll have to convince me that there's some significant space between how good he's going to be and those guys just because I think the fit is so much better.

I'm not saying I can't be convinced, but I'll wait until after the lottery.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby cragganmor » April 8, 2017, 11:39 pm

jmo, but the right fit is a pg or sg with legit size for the position, can defend and shares the ball, is a high-efficiency scorer that doesn't need many shots. just not a believer in volume gunners... looking at recent games i've noticed a ton of ball movement and effort by the players to move and pressure defenses. the player that can force defenses to collapse and hand off to kp or whg close to the rim is going to run a high-octane offense.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby lxn_ » April 10, 2017, 12:16 am

Fultz on Knicks.. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.3036804 .. time to get lucky with those ping pong balls and get this kid, really didnt expect him to say something like this.
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Re: [Merged] 2017 Draft Discussion...

Postby StevoStarks » April 10, 2017, 2:52 pm

lxn_ wrote:Fultz on Knicks.. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... -1.3036804 .. time to get lucky with those ping pong balls and get this kid, really didnt expect him to say something like this.


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