Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Post all your ideas for trade proposals and signings to improve the Knicks or other NBA teams.

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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby KnicksFanInSouthFL » February 3, 2016, 12:26 pm

H20Knick wrote:Yes. Melo is that much better of a defender than Griffin, and the floor spacing in a Griffin/KP/Lopez lineup is absolutely atrocious. Griffin is athletic, sure.. but who knows how much longer that will last.

We have to stop loading up on frontcourt players. I beat the same deadhorse over and over again. Scrubs+Melo/Amare/Tyson didn't work. Scrubs+Melo/KP/Lopez isn't working. Scrubs+Griffin/KP/Lopez sure as fuck isn't going to work. If you want to do Griffin at 4 and KP at 5, that's fine, but take Lopez's $13mil and get us some guards.

Wrong, on the season Melo's defensive rating is actually higher than Griffin's... Sure, Melo gets matched up against more SF's but no player in the league exclusively guards their own position. Not to mention, more often than not Melo gets lit up the by the elite 3's, and he usually allows the lesser known players (the Giannis Antetokounmpo, Gordon Haywood's, Jae Crowder's, Kent Bazemore's, PJ Hairston's, etc...) to dominate the games against him. So, it ain't like he himself should be up for consideration for the all-defensive team. Anyway since defense ain't exactly their strong suit this entire argument is moot.

Spacing? What's the point in having good spacing if the team is neither effective nor efficient with it? The so-called spacing you desire with Melo on the court resulted in him shooting 25% from the floor last night. Matter of fact he's had a string of sub 40% shooting games this season which has him currently at his lowest field goal percentage since his rookie season. Between the two of 'em Griffin is obviously the more efficient player, and over the last two seasons in his quest to become a legitimate stretch-4 he's also become the better 3-point shooter... Knowing all this I just don't see how the argument for Melo (over Griffin) can be made.

As for our previous teams this years team is still under construction and being built around a rookie who is still in the early stages of his development. None of us know exactly what we have in Putback-P. For all we know he could develop into a guard-like bigman who'll be able to stretch the floor just as good, if not better than any of the elite guards in the game today. And if I'm presented with the option of adding one of the leagues best athletes to play alongside him I do it, then worry about the details later.
It's the Triangle over EVERYTHING!!! Melo-God is on borrowed time...
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby vino92 » February 3, 2016, 1:49 pm

As I posted before I think Melo win the Cavs a title A front court of Melo Lebron and Thompson would give the Warriors a fit with there combination of defense and offense The only way to Beat GS is to go small and quick Between Thompson and James You have to quick defenders and great re bounders Melo would Destroy GS math up against him, we get Love who in turn we trade Love and Grant to Orlando for Gordon Hezonja and Payton plus we have to take on Frye contract that gives us 3 young pieces for the future or another place is to trade Love to Boston For Brooklyn's 2016/17 draft picks plus Rozier Hunter Crowder and Lee expiring contract
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby H20Knick » February 3, 2016, 2:47 pm

KnicksFanInSouthFL wrote:Wrong, on the season Melo's defensive rating is actually higher than Griffin's... Sure, Melo gets matched up against more SF's but no player in the league exclusively guards their own position. Not to mention, more often than not Melo gets lit up the by the elite 3's, and he usually allows the lesser known players (the Giannis Antetokounmpo, Gordon Haywood's, Jae Crowder's, Kent Bazemore's, PJ Hairston's, etc...) to dominate the games against him. So, it ain't like he himself should be up for consideration for the all-defensive team. Anyway since defense ain't exactly their strong suit this entire argument is moot.

Spacing? What's the point in having good spacing if the team is neither effective nor efficient with it? The so-called spacing you desire with Melo on the court resulted in him shooting 25% from the floor last night. Matter of fact he's had a string of sub 40% shooting games this season which has him currently at his lowest field goal percentage since his rookie season. Between the two of 'em Griffin is obviously the more efficient player, and over the last two seasons in his quest to become a legitimate stretch-4 he's also become the better 3-point shooter... Knowing all this I just don't see how the argument for Melo (over Griffin) can be made.

As for our previous teams this years team is still under construction and being built around a rookie who is still in the early stages of his development. None of us know exactly what we have in Putback-P. For all we know he could develop into a guard-like bigman who'll be able to stretch the floor just as good, if not better than any of the elite guards in the game today. And if I'm presented with the option of adding one of the leagues best athletes to play alongside him I do it, then worry about the details later.



Defensive rating is such a team-biased and you know it. Yeah, players score less against Blake because Blake plays next to DeAndre Jordan. If you don't think it has an impact, then explain how Josh Smith has a DRTG of 98 (the 7 games he's been back in Houston? his drtg is 106)? How does Cole Aldrich have a DRTG of 96. The mean DRTG for the Clippers is 103. The mean DRTG for the Knicks is 107. That's why I wanted DeAndre Jordan in the offseason. Melo, this season, has had a negative impact on opponent's FG% from everywhere on the floor (which is usually a solid indicator of perimeter defense). A -6.0% differential overall. That's tremendous, especially considering he's been playing more 3 than in the past and his knee isn't 100%.

I've said since day 1 that Melo should play the 4 spot. You're not arguing against me. If you dont think Melo at the 3 works well, then we agree. If you think Blake would do any better at the 3 than Melo, then we completely disagree. I don't have a problem with replacing Melo with Blake. I made a thread suggesting that idea 2 years ago. Blake's percentages are great and he's 26 years old. I have a huge problem with the knicks pretending its still 1995 and trotting out PFs as 3s. Yes, Griffin is a good athlete... for a power forward. You have no data whatsoever to suggest that his fantastic efficiency wouldn't disappear the instant you moved him to the 3 spot and/or put him in the triangle offense and/or gave him a PG on the level of Calderon/Galloway/Grant/Vujacic. There's also nothing to suggest he could even begin to guard them. If we say that Melo and Griffin are comparable defenders now, take Griffin out of his natural position and he's likely to get worse. So it's quite likely that they wont be equally bad, because Griffin would be worse.

And despite how positive my opinions of KP are at this point, I don't think he's going to be a 7'3 guard-like bigman. Stretching the floor and hitting open jumpshots sure. But I don't see him putting the ball on the floor and wasting the current gen of long NBA defenders. With a lineup of 2 guards and Griffin/KP/Lopez, there are really only 2 guys on the floor I want to take more than 2 dribbles ever. For comparison's sake, the Warriors, who have 4 losses, regular trot out lineups with 4 or even 5 guys who are completely comfortable putting the ball on the court.
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby KnicksFanInSouthFL » February 3, 2016, 9:24 pm

^^^
Defensive ratings are a part of basketball analytics. Just because in this instance it contradicts ya argument doesn't mean you get to disregard it... 8-)

I've always believed Melo was capable of defending the 3, even at this stage of his career. Which is proven by his -6.0% differential that you mentioned. That said, I still don't consider him to be a strong defender. I believe he's benefited from playing next to Putback-P and RoLo who have helped skew his defensive statistics this season. Kinda like ya case for Griffin playing next to DeAndre Jordan. Still, I have zero doubts Griffin would have any difficulty guarding the 3 position. Of course I have no evidence or data support my claims other than the numerous instances we've all witnessed where he was matched up against some of the leagues best 3's and was able to hold his own.

What you fail to realize is all forwards ain't built the same. Melo has always toed the line between both forward positions, and with Griffin's skill-set/athletic ability he should be viewed in the same way. Because he definitely ain't ya prototypical power forward nor is he a stretch-4, he's sumthin else... And with a career average of 4 APG (5 APG, this season) the numbers say he's more of a point forward than Melo ever was... So, ya outcry that Griffin wouldn't know what to do with himself if he were asked to defend the occasional elite SF just doesn't hold any weight. Speaking of weight, the difference in size between he and Melo is about 2 inches and 10lbs, nuthin substantial. There is however a major difference in their athletic abilities, which when called upon helps him to guard smaller/quicker opponents.

KnicksFanInSouthFL wrote:

Neither Putback-P nor Griffin are exactly stiffs, we'd be able to get by with two interchangeable forwards like them... Add RoLo in at the 5 and I'd be willing to go forward (no pun intended) with all of 'em.
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby PistolPete » February 5, 2016, 12:44 am

Today would be a great day to trade Melo too. Not sure what the Knicks are waiting for.


If a 4-18 shooting performance is good enough for Phil to pull the trigger, then I don't know what is.
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby Red » February 5, 2016, 7:29 am

Ha...
fairweather?

Its snowing in the North East corridor today...

Perfect weather to expose all non-loyalists. It's darkest just before the light.
It's a pathetic race at the bottom of the Eastern Conference, and the Knicks are in the middle of it fighting for the chance to get eliminated in the first round.
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby vino92 » February 5, 2016, 10:47 am

The only light this team is moving towards is the one you see before you drop dead!!!! :)
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby taowave » February 5, 2016, 12:22 pm

Barkley, however, shied away from answering a question about whether the Knicks and president Phil Jackson would be better off for the long-term trading Anthony, saying only “it depends on who you’re trading him for, that’s how I’ll answer that question.”
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby Red » February 5, 2016, 2:30 pm

:?
vino92 wrote:The only light this team is moving towards is the one you see before you drop dead!!!! :)


Some people are thought to be dumb (or stupid take your pick), others open their mouths or in this case post shit like this and remove all doubt.

Foolish mortal.

Any "fan" who really believes more than 2-3 teams have a shot at winning the chip in the NBA to begin the season simply hasn't been paying attention.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. The greatest trick Stern and Silver ever pulled was convincing fans that every team had an equal chance of winning the chip to begin the season.

Once again I have to remind everyone... not the Clippers, not the Celtics, not the Heat, not Houston etc... none of em' will win the chip this year.

So you can convince yourselves that finishing number 3 is better than finishing 15th but the end result remains the same, No Chip.

Will you feel better as a Clippers fan? You're only delaying the inevitable. Would you feel better if say at least we finished in 5th rather than 15th?

Stop fooling yourself. Odds are you'd still be complaining. So get on board the Red train.. the one where we realize it's all or nothing. That way you won't fool yourself into thinking that replacing Melo with Griffin will bring you solace because guess what that still ain't enough. And yeah perhaps we'd improve yet we still won't win and if you're cool with that then STFU because we've improved.

All or nothing right? Yeah let it sink in.
It's a pathetic race at the bottom of the Eastern Conference, and the Knicks are in the middle of it fighting for the chance to get eliminated in the first round.
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby KnicksFanInSouthFL » February 5, 2016, 2:34 pm

Trading Melo seems to be the talk of NY...

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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby StevoStarks » February 5, 2016, 3:01 pm

Check these out:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/carmelo-anthony-trade-scenarios-work-article-1.2520047

Should the Knicks trade Carmelo Anthony for Blake Griffin? Five trades that could work
BY Bernie Augustine

Carmelo Anthony hasn’t asked for a trade from the Knicks, but he should think about it.

The News’ Frank Isola wrote Thursday that Carmelo Anthony should at least consider asking the Knicks for a trade.

Here’s Frank’s argument on the topic:

Anthony has always been proud that his teams in Denver and New York qualified for the playoffs in each of the first 10 years of his career.

Now, he’s working on the wrong type of streak and it may be time for Anthony to bid farewell to the rebuilding Knicks and chase a title elsewhere. An amicable divorce may be best for both parties. It’s an option Anthony should seriously consider.

Phil Jackson’s plan conflicts with Anthony’s win-now plan. It always did. Kristaps Porzingis, the future of the franchise, is 20. Carmelo is 31 with 12 seasons under his belt and nearly 32,000 minutes on his legs.

Frank mentioned the Bulls, Celtics, Raptors, Hawks and Clippers as potential teams where Anthony could have a chance to use the back-end of his prime years to chase a championship.

Anthony has a full no-trade clause, so he holds veto power over any trade, and has three years remaining on his five-year, $124 million contract.

By NBA rules, if the Knicks move Anthony — and his $22.8 million annual salary — the contracts coming back have to be of equal value.

There are a lot of variables to consider — including the 15 percent trade kicker, or bonus, in Anthony’s contract and the increases over the final three years on the deal — but here are some trade possibilities that could work, according to ESPN’s Trade Machine.

CARMELO ANTHONY FOR BLAKE GRIFFIN

Forget the previews, let’s go to right to the blockbuster.

This move would pair Anthony with his long-time pal, Chris Paul, and put him in the middle of a championship chase. The Clippers would still be the third, or fourth, best team in the West — clearly behind the Warriors and Spurs and neck-and-neck with or right behind the Thunder — but still offer his best shot at a championship.

The Knicks would get two-plus seasons of Griffin — a free agent after the 2017-18 season — who’ll be 29 when the contract is up (a year younger than Anthony was when the Knicks signed him to his five-year, $124M deal). He won’t be back on the court for at least a month after decking the Clippers trainer in Toronto — a red flag, for sure — and could create some positional redundancy with Porzingis. Could they play on the floor together? The Knicks dealt with that headache once before with Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire.

POSSIBLE KNICKS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Langston Galloway
G — Arron Afflalo
F — Blake Griffin
F — Kristaps Porzingis
C — Robin Lopez

POSSIBLE CLIPPERS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Chris Paul
G — J.J Redick
F — Wesley Johnson
F — Carmelo Anthony
C — DeAndre Jordan

Derrick Rose isn’t the player he once was, but he’s a significant upgrade over the Knicks’ current point guards.

CARMELO ANTHONY FOR DERRICK ROSE

Anthony flirted with the Bulls in free agency, but that was when Tom Thibodeau was the coach. Who knows if there’s still interest there on Anthony’s part.

While the concerns over Rose’s health are legitimate, he’s actually played in more games than Anthony has — 93 to 85 — over the last two seasons.

The Knicks’ need at point guard is well-documented, and while Rose isn’t the MVP he once was — and may never be again — he’s an upgrade over the point guards on the roster now and if it doesn't work out, his contract expires at the end of next season.

POSSIBLE KNICKS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Derrick Rose
G — Arron Afflalo
F — Derrick Williams
F — Kristaps Porzingis
C — Robin Lopez

POSSIBLE BULLS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Kirk Hinrich
G — Jimmy Butler
F — Carmelo Anthony
F — Pau Gasol
C — Joakim Noah

CARMELO ANTHONY AND SASHA VUJACIC FOR JEFF TEAGUE, TIAGO SPLITTER, AND MIKE SCOTT

An All-Star last season, Jeff Teague is available on the trade market.

If the Hawks want Anthony, they want him to make a run at the title this year, so they’re probably not going to give up Paul Millsap or Al Horford — a free agent after the season — in a deal. They’ve already let it leak that they’re listening to offers for Teague, and the Knicks have an obvious need at point guard.

Kent Bazemore and Mike Scott are interchangeable in this scenario.

POSSIBLE KNICKS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Jeff Teague
G — Arron Afflalo
F — Mike Scott
F — Kristaps Porzingis
C — Robin Lopez

POSSIBLE HAWKS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Dennis Schroder
G — Kyle Korver
F — Carmelo Anthony
F — Paul Millsap
C — Al Horford

At 6-2, Avery Bradley doesn’t bring the kind of size Phil Jackson likes for his point guards in the Triangle offense, but he’s a lock-down defender.

CARMELO ANTHONY FOR AVERY BRADLEY AND DAVID LEE

And a pick. That’s what this deal would be about.

Boston has three first-round picks in this year’s draft — their own, Brooklyn’s and Dallas’ — while New York doesn’t have any.

The Nets’ pick is already extremely valuable since its unprotected, so the Celtics might be reluctant to give that pick up, even in a deal for Anthony.

Anthony would give the Celtics a nice 1-2 scoring punch with Isaiah Thomas, but you wonder how adding him would affect Brad Stevens’ player rotations (nine Celtics play 20 minutes or more).

Bradley fills the point guard need for the Knicks and, hey, David Lee comes back.

POSSIBLE KNICKS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Avery Bradley
G — Arron Afflalo
F — Derrick Williams
F — Kristaps Porzingis
C — Robin Lopez

POSSIBLE CELTICS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Marcus Smart
G — Isaiah Thomas
F — Carmelo Anthony
F — Jae Crowder
C — Jared Sullinger

CARMELO ANTHONY AND LOU AMUNDSON FOR DEMARRE CARROLL, TERRENCE ROSS, CORY JOSEPH

Pairing Carmelo Anthony with Kyle Lowry (l.) and DeMar DeRozan could create a nightmare scenario for the Knicks.

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Not exactly the most exciting scenario for the Knicks.

The Raptors are already right there with the Cavs among the best teams in the East, and sending Anthony to Toronto, a divisional opponent, could haunt the Knicks for years to come.

But Ross and Joseph are young (both are 24) and Carroll gives them some toughness and positional flexibility in the frontcourt.

Raptors GM Masai Ujiri has gotten the better of the Knicks in trades before — as GM of the Nuggets he orchestrated the 2011 Anthony trade to the Knicks and in 2013, with the Raptors, he got the Knicks to give up a first-round pick (this year’s, in fact) for Andrea Bargnani.

Would the Knicks really want to make a third deal with him?

POSSIBLE KNICKS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Langston Galloway
G — Arron Afflalo
F — Terrence Ross
F — Kristaps Porzingis
C — Robin Lopez

POSSIBLE RAPTORS POST-TRADE STARTING 5:
G — Kyle Lowry
G — DeMar DeRozan
F — Carmelo Anthony
F — James Johnson
C — Jonas Valenciunas
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby qdman » February 5, 2016, 3:09 pm

I'll consider bradley and the 3rd overall lottery slot the best offer, Griffin as the second best.
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby vino92 » February 5, 2016, 5:40 pm

Boston had been dangling Brooklyn !st round pick since the begening of the season but again your not getting the most value for Melo with this trade but you do if you involve a third team one in which Melo would not only prefer but one that would put him in the NBA finals You trade Melo to the Cavs so they have a frontcourt of Melo James and Thompson that would give fits to every team in this leauge including the Spurs and GS we get Love and there 2016/2017 draft pick We take Love and trade him J Grant to Boston who desperatly wants him as there next great white hope in return from Boston we get Rozier, Hunter, Crowder and Lee expiring contract plus Brooklyns 2016 pick in fact I think Boston is so hard up for love that we may get them to throw in there own first round pick. Will they give all that up for Melo No will they give all that up for Love you can bank on it all we hve to do is be the third party and make this happen. One last thought if this package doesnt appeal to you we can do the ssame deal with Orlando who also wants Love send him and Grant for Gordon Hezonja Payton and Frye either one of these scenarios give us a brighter future WTF make the DEAL
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby taowave » February 7, 2016, 8:23 am

Saw an old trade rumor that involved a,3 way trade with the Knicks,Sacramento and the Heat.
Melo to the Heat,Rolo to the Kings and we get Winslow and Cauley Stein.(not sure how it fits with cap)
If nothing else we are way more athletic with a ton of Cap.

I hate to say it,but if we can get young talent and Rolo and Melo off the books,I would pull the trigger. Melo is 32 in May.It's now or never,and KP's emergence makes it a viable path to take.
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby KnicksFanInSouthFL » February 7, 2016, 11:49 am

^^^
Outside of drafting Putback-P, and trading THJ for Grant, the RoLo signing might be Phil's best move since taking over the Knicks basketball opertations. To turnaround and trade him would be an admission that none of his moves have worked, and make Phil look like more of a joke as President than he already is...

I doubt RoLo gets traded.
Last edited by KnicksFanInSouthFL on February 7, 2016, 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby Don Che » February 7, 2016, 11:59 am

I agree...just sucks cuz I'd rather him make the best decision at the time without worrying how it "seems" or what he "admits" by doing it.

Rolo is 27...on a decent deal. And has gotten better on the block offensively as the year has gone on
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby KnicksFanInSouthFL » February 7, 2016, 12:03 pm

Agreed...

I like RoLo. :?
It's the Triangle over EVERYTHING!!! Melo-God is on borrowed time...
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby Minkaveli » February 7, 2016, 12:04 pm

Melo has officially started his decline with his injuries. We got him in his best years and couldn't really do much. Unfortunately he is starting to get the "when healthy" tag.
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby KnicksFanInSouthFL » February 7, 2016, 12:10 pm

^^^
In that case Melo's official decline started two seasons ago with his shoulder injury...
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Re: Porzingis is the FUTURE!!! Time to trade Melo???

Postby Don Che » February 7, 2016, 12:33 pm

Melo isn't on a decline...you can argue he's defending/passing better than he ever has in his career.

Pierce was a all star caliber player till he was like 35....no reason why Melo can't be the same.

If he can be a 20/7/4 player the next 2 yearswe can win with him...if we build a roster around him.

Rolo/KP/Melo/Lance/Gallo are my keepers. DWill and Grant are on the bubble.

Get a guard and some athleticism and we can be good.
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