Should We Trade Porzingis?

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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby Brooklyn » July 13, 2018, 4:40 pm

If we sign him next summer after signing a major FA, we would have an extra 10m in cap. If he cares about the team he'll wait for that extension won't he?
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby taowave » July 13, 2018, 4:55 pm

I am not so sure I would want to wager 157 million dollars for the good of the team..

What if he gets injured again?


Brooklyn wrote:If we sign him next summer after signing a major FA, we would have an extra 10m in cap. If he cares about the team he'll wait for that extension won't he?
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby KnicksRUs » July 13, 2018, 7:08 pm

Mr. Glass wrote:@ Shakes - would you do KP for Whiteside (MIA)?


wtf?
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby Mike1989 » July 14, 2018, 6:28 am

Brooklyn wrote:I know I'm going to catch A LOT of shit for this post, but it warrants discussion IMO.

I'll start out by saying that Porzingis is my favorite player on our team - his arrival brought a whole new skillset and much needed hope. I'll agree with all soon-to-be-posted comments about his virtues as a basketball player. However, because of these very same attributes he possess, I can't help but feel that the team relies way too much on all of that to materialize in order to continue moving forward. The jewel of this team is a 7'3" PF who's unicorn status is established by his mobility and who happens to have torn his ACL!

Think about that for a moment....the cornerstone of our franchise is a mobile giant who fucked up his knee. The outcome: to be determined. Oh....and to find out we have to give him a max contract.

I'm not saying we SHOULD trade him but, what I am saying is that taking NY Knicks history into consideration do we tie up 6 years and 200 million on a guy who has the potential to end up being Ryan Anderson or even worse spend the better part of his contract on the DL.

I know many people will think that this post is driven by us drafting Kevin Knox, but I assure you it is not. As I am cautious with making bold predictions over a rookie's performance on 2 summer league games, shouldn't we be equally as concerned about a 7'3 guy who tore his ACL?


KP was on his way to becoming a star player, perhaps even a superstar player, before his ACL injury. Should he be able to comeback from that injury? Sure, players have come back successfully and if the injury was as clean as recently reported that should go in his favor. However, how many have come back from such injuries with the size of Porzingis? The closest I can think of is Danilo Gallinari who is about 6ft 10, he suffered an ACL tear in 12/13 and missed the entire 13/14 season. He's managed to play at a decent level since coming back but he has remained the same injury prone player he was prior to his ACL injury. So on the one hand KP should be able to comeback from this injury, but on the other his size and style of play will likely make us cringe plenty of times in future games.

Recovery aside, being injury prone has been an issue for KP during his time here. He was struggling with his elbow in the 17/18 season, he missed 16 games the season before, and 10 games in his rookie season. So he's never been the picture of health and durability so far in his NBA career compared to someone like Karl Anthony Towns who has played 82 games in each of his three NBA seasons. Now this doesn't mean you can't build around him because the Pelicans have built around Anthony Davis and he's often picking up injuries and missing games. However, we would be naive to think that an ACL injury is not serious and even with today's medical knowledge derail a career. Athletes are now bigger than ever, but their ligaments are still the same. So that presents a problem for someone like KP recovering from an injury like this, kinda like Cousins coming back from his Achilles injury. Those ligaments and tendons have been surgically repaired, but they are still going to be under a lot of stress and strain due to their style of play and perhaps that might have to change to some degree to prevent re-injury.

So would I consider trading KP?

I would say there are only two reasons you trade KP right now: one, if you have inside knowledge that his knee is not as strong as reported or you have doubts about his ability to stay healthy post-ACL; and two, if you receive an offer that is too good to refuse.

I can't possibly comment on the first one, but the second one is a bit easier because we can all think of possible trades. For instance the Lakers might pick up the phone and say we'll send you Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma and two future first round picks. At that point we might get tempted because Lonzo can be a long term solution at PG, Ingram can play SG, Knox SF, Kuzma PF, and Mitchell can slot in at C. Or we can slot Kuzma in as sixth man, put Ingram and Knox in at SF and PF, with Hardaway Jr or Frank at SG for the time being, then hopefully draft RJ Barrett or Cameron Reddish in the 2019 draft to slot in at SG, or we can draft a big and keep Frank at SG. Essentially it would be an interesting young quintet to build around. Or perhaps the Celtics deal Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum plus a future first round pick for KP (they then go with Kyrie, Smart?, Hayward, KP, Horford). Now I doubt we would want to trade him in conference, but there is an appeal to adding Brown and Tatum as high upside players.

Now I doubt we would receive any offer close to the two suggested above, but it would take that kinda haul for me to even remotely consider trading KP because anything less is not worth it for us unless someone offers us the first overall pick in next year's draft plus a young talent from their roster, but even that would require us to believe that there is a franchise changing talent in next year's draft and it is worth giving up KP in order to acquire them. The flip side to that is why are they giving up on that talent and wanting KP, which is another matter entirely. So there are lots of things to consider when thinking about a deal for KP, but ultimately it would require something too good to refuse and teams aren't going to do that post-ACL. So we might as well hold on and gamble that KP can recover from this and become a dominant player.
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby taowave » July 14, 2018, 7:22 am

Mike,agree wholeheartedly with everything you said,except for the Flip Side part.Its irrelavant why your counterparty pulls the trigger on a trade.
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby thewatcher » July 14, 2018, 7:36 am

Yeah good post Mike, good to have your well thought out comments on the board. I don't see any of those trade scenarios happening, but if the Timberwolves believe Towns won't re-sign with them, they will be forced to field offers for KAT in about a year. I love the way KP was playing early last year before he started wearing down, and wouldn't trade that player for KAT, however the injuries have to enter the equation. Do you guys really see KAT staying in Minn?
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby taowave » July 14, 2018, 7:58 am

5 years,188 mil..

He's staying
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby NewlyKnicked » July 14, 2018, 8:00 am

If the beef between KAT and Butler is real and they don't make a big push in the PO next year, one of the two will leave
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby thewatcher » July 14, 2018, 8:04 am

NewlyKnicked wrote:If the beef between KAT and Butler is real and they don't make a big push in the PO next year, one of the two will leave
exactly, and remember Jimmy is the coaches guy and KAT might feel underappreciated. Not to mention Minny is a brutal place to live with a minuscule market, and KAT has a big personality from the Metro area.

To be honest I would be really sad trading KP for KAT, KAT is an industrious player, while KP plays like no-other. But sign and trades make anything possible.
Last edited by thewatcher on July 14, 2018, 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby taowave » July 14, 2018, 8:10 am

Butler just turned down 110 mil over 4 years.
Kat is looking for 188 mil over 5..
I forgot what Wiggins is being overpaid,bit it's ALOT..

Push comes to shove,Butler will be the odd man out..

Kat is the franchise
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby taowave » July 14, 2018, 8:15 am

Watcher,have you looked at KATs numbers??

Dude had a .640 TS percentage last year.Over 42 percent from 3...He's the true unicorn..

Yes,KP is a better shot blocker.

But he's injury prone
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby thewatcher » July 14, 2018, 8:18 am

I understand Tao, as a GM I make the move. But KAT is a clown, and KP is a serious player who we grew up with. So as a fan I would be sad, but of course a championship would change that.
Butler turned it down because no-one wants to live in Minny, including Towns.

for a 15 game stretch last year, KP was just the perfect player a legit MVP candidate.
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby taowave » July 14, 2018, 8:28 am

The "good" news is,it will never happen..
I think team Janis loves the moves Perry made,and will want the 157 mil sooner than later..

If I Was 7'3",and oft injured,I would have signed yesterday



thewatcher wrote:I understand Tao, as a GM I make the move. But KAT is a clown, and KP is a serious player who we grew up with. So as a fan I would be sad, but of course a championship would change that.
Butler turned it down because no-one wants to live in Minny, including Towns.

for a 15 game stretch last year, KP was just the perfect player a legit MVP candidate.
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby thewatcher » July 14, 2018, 8:34 am

Okay then, let's roll with KP !! it's kind of ideal this year, let him rest up all season and then unleash a fully recovered Unicorn right before the playoffs!! :drunk:
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby taowave » July 14, 2018, 9:40 am

That would be the best case scenario...I definitely do not want to rush him... :drunk:


thewatcher wrote:Okay then, let's roll with KP !! it's kind of ideal this year, let him rest up all season and then unleash a fully recovered Unicorn right before the playoffs!! :drunk:
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby NewlyKnicked » July 14, 2018, 10:01 am

taowave wrote:Butler just turned down 110 mil over 4 years.
Kat is looking for 188 mil over 5..
I forgot what Wiggins is being overpaid,bit it's ALOT..

Push comes to shove,Butler will be the odd man out..

Kat is the franchise

Butler can get 190 if he waits one year, I believe that’s the main (if not only) reason he turned down minny’s offer
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Re: Should We Trade Porzingis?

Postby Mike1989 » July 14, 2018, 1:56 pm

taowave wrote:Mike,agree wholeheartedly with everything you said,except for the Flip Side part.Its irrelavant why your counterparty pulls the trigger on a trade.


Why would the Lakers do it?
Let's fastforward to 2019 free agency. There are a number of players they could target like Butler, Kawhi and Durant. Their addition could make Ingram acquirable since one of them would pair with LeBron at the forward spots, and KP could then slot in as a rim protecting stretch five.

Now if they played Butler at SG or they pryed Klay away from the Warriors, LeBron could play at SF, and KP could play PF/C. If they could create enough space and someone like Love or Marc Gasol was willing to take a team friendly deal like Lopez or Cousins have done, that would be the foundation of a win now super team and they could slot in Rondo as their starting PG.

As for Lonzo, it wouldn't surprise me if his dad clashed with LeBron. Would that make him acquirable with Rondo as their backup? I'd say it's a possibility.

Why would the Celtics do it?
I'd say a combination like Rozier and Brown plus the Kings first round pick could be a realistic return for KP because he could slot in at PF then ultimately replace Horford at the five with Tatum playing PF.

Alternatively if they prefer Brown's 3 and D upside and fit next to Kyrie, with Hayward at SF, they could offer Tatum since KP can play the PF spot.

I doubt either scenario happens but we've all seen teams gamble on players they think will make them better. KP has MVP candidate potential if he stays healthy and puts everything together. So feasibly they could gamble on that for a couple of young players and a first round pick or two in order to combat the Warriors. Obviously if they current core matches up well then there's no need to make a move like this, but struggle to match up and a change up would not be a major surprise.

With all that said, these are two teams with assets that we might want. There are others that could try to tempt us to part with KP, but ultimately as I said in my original post it would need to be something too good to refuse and those types of deals don't happen often. But another season of domination from the Warriors could make teams panic.
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