2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Don Che » May 18, 2019, 10:25 pm

I'd use Dennis for that same asset instead

KP is always hurt
west is always good(top 2 picks out west again)
with the new format of the lottery...late lottery teams can creep into top 3 real fast

......keep the Dallas picks and trade the young guys who dont fit today's script for other assets now
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby big_j_NY » May 19, 2019, 3:54 pm

Don Che wrote:I'd use Dennis for that same asset instead

KP is always hurt
west is always good(top 2 picks out west again)
with the new format of the lottery...late lottery teams can creep into top 3 real fast

......keep the Dallas picks and trade the young guys who dont fit today's script for other assets now


Dennis is added value in a trade with our future draft picks for more........same with Frank.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Don Che » May 27, 2019, 11:28 am

seeing these playoffs...and looking at how we are building this team.

we really need a lot more shooting and passing but there is one thing we do have that projects into the playoffs.

defensive versatility....Mitch and Vonleh cover the perimeter just as good or better than most big man combinations i see in the playoff teams this year.

We can play a big line up going into heavy games esp if they both continue to improve their shooting. Vonleh at one point was lights out. Mitch will improve in that area as well.

I'm projecting RJ/Culver on the perimeter....so that leaves 2 spots that really need lights out shooters and plus defenders(one passer). Based on players on our roster(our free agents) that have a shot to fill those spots:

Frank: plus defender but obv he can't shoot or too afraid to.
Mario: is the best player ever....in Mario's mind and when he was given the keys he played well. He wants to be here and if he comes in focused builds off the end of the year he has the talent to do it all, shoot/defend/pass but again its all mental with him.
Knox: as mentioned in other threads he can shoot it..its his most ready skill....he just needs to defend a whole lot better. I can see him and RJ getting tunnel vision but thats on Fiz to coach them up on team play.
Dennis: Hes another highly talented "good as he wants to be" prospect with a whole lot of nasty to him. But his skill set shooting wise has to increase a lot. You can't be a winning team having your backcourt shooting 57% and 66% from the FT line and both shooting under 35% from 3. So if he doesnt want a repeat of what happened with Doncic...........he better get is shot together and get in the gym.

We have a lot of young talent here....but the one thing i am 100% confident in.....Mitch and Vonleh at the 4/5 could anchor a strong defensive team and bringing a ton of versatility
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby gradyandrew » May 28, 2019, 9:14 pm

I'm with you on Vonleh. He's got a motor in him too. He looks like he could be a small ball 5 in a lot of situations too. Do you think a 4 year deal at 10 per would work?
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby NewlyKnicked » May 29, 2019, 5:47 am

The question is: was Noah's bad play at the end of the season enough to keep teams from showering him with money?? Anyone would love to see him come back but the proice needs to be as low as possible. I think he loved his stay here which will give us the edge if the money is the same, but he'll take the biggest offer, no doubt.

It's going to be a crazy FA. Some players will be vastly overpaid and some FO will fid their way to players on the cheap. Great deals will be struck! Get to work Perry!
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby H20Knick » May 29, 2019, 10:42 am

NewlyKnicked wrote:The question is: was Noah's bad play at the end of the season enough to keep teams from showering him with money?? Anyone would love to see him come back but the proice needs to be as low as possible. I think he loved his stay here which will give us the edge if the money is the same, but he'll take the biggest offer, no doubt.

It's going to be a crazy FA. Some players will be vastly overpaid and some FO will fid their way to players on the cheap. Great deals will be struck! Get to work Perry!


"Not just the pressure. I remember after the first game, I probably had, like, 60 people in my house. I'm too lit. I'm too lit to play in New York City," Noah said, laughing with the interviewer. "I'm too lit to play in New York City. Memphis is perfect for me."


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2553 ... ork-knicks

fuck no. never again. it was a terrible idea before and its a terrible idea now. fuck joahkim noah.
Get well, KD. :(

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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Don Che » May 29, 2019, 10:58 am

i think 10 mill per should be good enough to keep him.

I see him as the perfect 4 next to Mitch but yes he can play 5 in the right spots.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby H20Knick » May 29, 2019, 11:38 am

I wouldn't give up my cap space for noah vonleh...

He's solid, but I don't think he's worth that if youre starting from below the cap. If we were already over and were just giving him an extension using bird rights, sure. But I can't advocate it using pure cap space. It's too valuable and Vonleh's ROI is nowhere near high enough to justify that.
Get well, KD. :(

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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby spree#8 » May 29, 2019, 11:48 am

H20Knick wrote:I wouldn't give up my cap space for noah vonleh...

He's solid, but I don't think he's worth that if youre starting from below the cap. If we were already over and were just giving him an extension using bird rights, sure. But I can't advocate it using pure cap space. It's too valuable and Vonleh's ROI is nowhere near high enough to justify that.


Agreed, that's way too much money for Vonleh. If we don't get two max free agents this summer, we ideally want to role two max slots over to the next summer, so we can't give out long-term commitments like that. On a one-year deal maybe.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Don Che » May 29, 2019, 2:21 pm

i think what he did last year is the worst he would do...i see him as a Udonis Haslem type guy.

and at that age i wonder what Haslem was making per year.

if you have 2 studs on a rookie scale...and i do think RJ/Dennis have the talent to be studs and on a lesser extent Knox

Vonleh has good value at that 8 to 10 mill per year tag if he projects to be a starter
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby H20Knick » May 29, 2019, 4:26 pm

Udonis went from 7 mil in 09-10 to 3.5 mil in 10-11 to accommodate the big 3. At age 23, Udonis was still on his rookie deal making 600k. By year 5 (where Vonleh will be next season), he was making 6 mil per. He was the Heat's 6th highest paid player though and was starting every game and playing 30 mpg+. After the Big 3 started, he was their 5th highest paid player.

I can see Vonleh being our 5th/6th highest paid player, but our 5th/6th highest paid player can't afford to make 10 million dollars a year if we're doing this in true free agency.

If Durant comes, you have about 30 mil in cap space left. If you bring Vonleh back on a multi-year deal at 10 mil per, you are out of contention for any max deals next summer, even for a guy with <7 years experience. Also, you've got 20 mil left in cap space, which isn't going to get you much. Vonleh probably ends up being your 3rd highest paid player. It's too much.

If Durant doesn't come, I guess I could see it because you're playing the long game of rebuilding, but I don't know if Vonleh's progressed enough over these 4 years in his career for me to think he'd ever live up to a 10 mil per contract, which i'm considering to be 3rd/4th best player money.
Get well, KD. :(

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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Don Che » May 29, 2019, 4:57 pm

yeh my plan is as if KD isnt coming

i understand if he comes....we gotta get w/e he wants which im not a fan of.

I'd rather build this slow..and im guessing the cap has increased since than right? so 6 or 7 mill per at that time is like 8 to 9 now...im not married to the idea of paying him 10...im just using that as a barometer

just because you cap doesnt mean you gotta spend it all and go nuts with....this is the time to be patient...our corner stone players are 18 and 20.

Let KD stay where he is and let Kyrie go to BK.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby nazrmohamed » May 29, 2019, 6:13 pm

Even under your intended goal I believe 10 mil is too much. The best thing that ever happened to the NBA is DeMarcus Cousins accepting that ridiculous contract. It's like your neighbor moving out and selling way under value. Big men simply arent a hot commodity anymore unless you're a star big man or can defend at an all defensive level. Mitch Robinson may be worth a big deal when his deal ends. Not Vonleh and that's not to say I dont like Vonley but I'm not overpaying for him. A contract starring at 7mil per is more than fair and I really wish it were 6.

Basically I wanna split 13mil between he and Herzonia and IMO we wouldn't be outbid.
Grady- Mario is the KD of tanking. Fiz got worried that playing Jordan would help the Knicks win, so he has to make sure Mario gets plenty of minutes.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Don Che » May 30, 2019, 10:28 am

sure...offer 6 lol you guys are acting like we dictate his value

im willing to give 8...if it takes 6..sure why not even better
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby nazrmohamed » May 30, 2019, 9:09 pm

Don Che wrote:sure...offer 6 lol you guys are acting like we dictate his value

im willing to give 8...if it takes 6..sure why not even better


I might go up to 8 but I'll bet that the market simply doesn't dictate much for Herz and Vonleh. They showed something this year but we were the first team in the league and in hindsight Vonleh had a good first half and fell off while Herzonia did the opposite. Not exactly resumes that warrants big increases. Some team might pay it and then I'm out but hey, you want me to go up to 8 on one and play hardball with the other fine. I'll raise my combined salary to 14 mil. One gets 8 and the other 6 but I refuse to pay more than market value.
Grady- Mario is the KD of tanking. Fiz got worried that playing Jordan would help the Knicks win, so he has to make sure Mario gets plenty of minutes.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby NewlyKnicked » May 31, 2019, 1:48 am

Hezonja had 3 good games, not half a season lol
I get why we would want to keep him because of his potential and skill set, but he has shown next to nothing last year
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby taowave » May 31, 2019, 9:01 am

He did show that if he's not the PG,he sucks without the ball..
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Don Che » May 31, 2019, 2:04 pm

yeh Mario showed flashes but no substance...for him to play well you gotta make him the second or 3rd playmaker on the floor

theres value in that but he hasnt proven it..i'd pay minimal to keep him
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby nazrmohamed » May 31, 2019, 7:07 pm

Don Che wrote:yeh Mario showed flashes but no substance...for him to play well you gotta make him the second or 3rd playmaker on the floor

theres value in that but he hasnt proven it..i'd pay minimal to keep him


So in my scenario I guess hed get the 6mil
Grady- Mario is the KD of tanking. Fiz got worried that playing Jordan would help the Knicks win, so he has to make sure Mario gets plenty of minutes.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby StevoStarks » June 1, 2019, 12:32 am

taowave wrote:He did show that if he's not the PG,he sucks without the ball..


That was the only time he had value this season and I don’t see him being our point forward of the future. If he takes the kind of money we can spend, great, I think he can still be a useful role player. But not going a penny above the budget to keep him.
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