2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

[thewatcher]

We did our job this year,we defied the odds and got a top 3 pick....

exactly, and if the Lakers had ahead of us, we would have something to be upset about

[Red]

Sorry tao. You nor h20... no one can convince me.. it was Zion or Ja or bust for purposeful losing. That was my stance. I'd rather try and win and take the legit loss and lower lotto odds than to think losing is a valid strategy. Just too counterintuitive for me.

I agreed. It didn't work and wasn't worth it so no mo tanking.

[taowave]

Red,you are talking like the guy who goes to Vegas and hits on a statistical outlier and things he can consistently defy the odds.There is a reason why casinos stay in business

Do you know what the odds were for N.O and Memphis(two 30 win teams) getting the top 2 picks???

Play a simulator 1000x and see how many times that combination comes up or simply compute the odds assuming NO had a 6% chance and Memphis had a 9% chance...

You can shake your head all you want,you can spend all the money you want on winning the lottery,but the math behind your whole premise is flawed...

30 wins is fools gold,and the fact that a 150/200-1 (apx) paid off does not support your assertion in any way....

We got the 3rd pick and beat the odds...

Thats a good thing

It's not like winning 30 games will prevent you from drafting high. Smh

Just think about it... you for years now actually convinced yourself that losing is the better goal. Losing is winning in the tao household.

[Red]

Tao I am aware of the odds I watched just like you.

A team with 6% odds and AD got the first overall pick.

Another team with Mike Conley and 6% odds have a higher pick than the bottom 3 teams.

And another team with 2% odds and Lebron James received a higher pick than the 3 worse teams.

And this makes sense to you? It's a win for NY?
Lol I cannot.

[taowave]

Red,we beat the odds..Isnt that all that matters????

Im thinking half full as opposed to half empty

This draft order was a massively unlikely scenario,but we still have a real shot at an All Star talent

Just be thankful we didnt suffer the same fate as Cleveland,Chicago and Phoenix..

“That Lakers pick [at No. 4] is not nearly as valuable as that Knicks pick like you said,” Schmitz said. “This is a three-player draft. Scouts have been saying that for the better part of the entire college season. You have three guys at the top with All-Star potential in Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett, Ja Morant and then who knows at No. 4?

Tao I am aware of the odds I watched just like you.

A team with 6% odds and AD got the first overall pick.

Another team with Mike Conley and 6% odds have a higher pick than the bottom 3 teams.

And another team with 2% odds and Lebron James received a higher pick than the 3 worse teams.

And this makes sense to you? It's a win for NY?
Lol I cannot.

[H20Knick]

Tao I am aware of the odds I watched just like you.

A team with 6% odds and AD got the first overall pick.

Another team with Mike Conley and 6% odds have a higher pick than the bottom 3 teams.

And another team with 2% odds and Lebron James received a higher pick than the 3 worse teams.

And this makes sense to you? It's a win for NY?
Lol I cannot.

the team with the worst odds usually doesn't get the top pick. this is not any different. All you can do is put yourself in the best position to get a good pick. The knicks did that and were rewarded with a good pick.

your argument would make much more sense if this were sunsfanpage or cavsfanspage.... and their fanbases are probably mad they didnt tank hard enough to be the worst team in the league. Because if THEY had tanked harder, they'd have the 3rd pick in the draft instead of one that's not even top 5.

If I were a suns fan, i'd be bitterly angry that we had to pick up ariza and crawford just to win a couple more games and cost us 3 spots in the draft. If I were a cavs fan, i'd be bitterly angry that we didnt trade kevin love and it cost us 2 spots in the draft. To me, the tank was Zion/RJ or bust. You guys wanted to add Ja to that list, and fine, but the Suns and the Cavs will get none of those guys because they let vets win meaningless games for them. They won more games and you dont think any more highly of them than you do the knicks. THEY failed. The Knicks did exactly what they should've done.

Big J and I have led you to the promised land. If you want to jump off the bandwagon when we finally get a top 3 pick in the draft, thats your choice. Go find a perennial 35 win team to love and enjoy your moral victories

[Red]

Perhaps they should name this the "tank hard" rule for those who want to tank hard enough?

So Ill ask you (tao and h20) again... if you think tanking worked/works are you willing to do it again?

I'm not. Yes tao I'm the numb-nuts who would rather play it straight. We try for real. We win or lose for real. And we get whatever pick and take it like men.

No more thinking we can circumvent the odds for me. Just play and accept your fate. I will no longer entertain the we need to lose to get better view. Sorry. Is this not the lesson to learn? you cannot get better in the nba by being worse in a somewhat disingenuous way.

The "tank hard enough" rule has trumped it.. a team cannot "tank hard enough".

[taowave]

Exactly.....And you cant let a statistical outlier impair your judgement and like a 150-1 shot is the norm.....

If we land a PG and Durant,Ill be very happy with RJ at the 2/3..

If hes gone,I guess its Ja,but things get a little sticky with Dennis and possibly Kyrie/Kemba should Durant want proven vets

[H20Knick]

Perhaps they should name this the "tank hard" rule for those who want to tank hard enough?

So Ill ask you (tao and h20) again... if you think tanking worked/works are you willing to do it again?

I'm not. Yes tao I'm the numb-nuts who would rather play it straight. We try for real. We win or lose for real. And we get whatever pick and take it like men.

No more thinking we can circumvent the odds for me. Just play and accept your fate. I will no longer entertain the we need to lose to get better view. Sorry. Is this not the lesson to learn... you cannot get better in the nba by being worse?

The "tank hard enough" rule has trumped it.. a team cannot "tank hard enough".

no, we cant do it again because RJ is too good. if we had gotten the 4th or 5th pick and Durant/Kawhi wasn't coming, i'd absolutely do it again.

the warriors got curry and we didn't because they were worse than us. They literally threw games at the end of the season.

the wolves got KAT over us because they threw games

the mavs got Luka and we got Kevin Knox because they did everything they could to lose games at the end of the year and we were trying to pile up moral victories.

there is simply no reward for being a better non top-8 team. If youre in the top 8, okay, I get that its good to win. It's good to establish a winning culture and the fans are happy and you appeal to free agents and all that jazz. Otherwise, theres really no reward for it. The Nets are about to find this out the hard way in a month and a half.

[Red]

By the way how can you say it was counterproductive to acquire better talent in hopes of winning when the pick was basically the luck of the draw not to mention unknowingly months away?

Its clear now... you think once you decide to give up because you can't win it all (loser mentality) you figure you mind as well keep losing although the outcome (even with higher odds) is completely random and as you say almost never holds up.

I say yo sell the farm and win now because even with a few more "important" wins in the nba you'll still get the higher pick. Remember the worse team rarely gets the top pick.

[Red]

no, we cant do it again because RJ is too good. if we had gotten the 4th or 5th pick and Durant/Kawhi wasn't coming, i'd absolutely do it again.

the warriors got curry and we didn't because they were worse than us. They literally threw games at the end of the season.

the wolves got KAT over us because they threw games

the mavs got Luka and we got Kevin Knox because they did everything they could to lose games at the end of the year and we were trying to pile up moral victories.

there is simply no reward for being a better non top-8 team. If youre in the top 8, okay, I get that its good to win. It's good to establish a winning culture and the fans are happy and you appeal to free agents and all that jazz. Otherwise, theres really no reward for it. The Nets are about to find this out the hard way in a month and a half.

Oh ok... so we were doing what other teams did but under different rules? Lol

[H20Knick]

By the way how can you say it was counterproductive to acquire better talent in hopes of winning when the pick was basically the luck of the draw not to mention unknowingly months away?

Its clear now... you think once you decide to give up because you can't win it all (loser mentality) you figure you mind as well keep losing although the outcome (even with higher odds) is completely random and as you say almost never holds up.

I say yo sell the farm and win now because even with a few more "important" wins in the nba you'll still get the higher pick. Remember the worse team rarely gets the top pick.

the outcome is not completely random. there is nothing random about statistics. you're not even making sense. I honestly cant argue with someone that doesn't want to recognize odds and basic math.

selling the farm and winning now? That wasnt an option. That was never an option. Giannis/Kawhi/Harden/Durant weren't walking through that door last summer. You weren't going to win now. Winning is a championship. That's winning. As far as I'm concerned, one team wins every year. The rest of the league loses.

[knicksH20]

By the way how can you say it was counterproductive to acquire better talent in hopes of winning when the pick was basically the luck of the draw not to mention unknowingly months away?

Its clear now... you think once you decide to give up because you can't win it all (loser mentality) you figure you mind as well keep losing although the outcome (even with higher odds) is completely random and as you say almost never holds up.

I say yo sell the farm and win now because even with a few more "important" wins in the nba you'll still get the higher pick. Remember the worse team rarely gets the top pick.

It all comes down to "was it worth the risk"

[taowave]

If we strike out on every FA stud,I would no go after a Butler or Tobias. I would roll with

Mitch
Barret
Smith
Knox
Kornet/Von/Dot/Another draft pick

Ild play the youth..Is that a blatant tank???

Is it closer to a lottery team or a playoff squad??

Im thinking sub 30 wins..Not sure if you consider that intentional tanking.

Whats your thought at playing the youngins??

Perhaps they should name this the "tank hard" rule for those who want to tank hard enough?

So Ill ask you (tao and h20) again... if you think tanking worked/works are you willing to do it again?

I'm not. Yes tao I'm the numb-nuts who would rather play it straight. We try for real. We win or lose for real. And we get whatever pick and take it like men.

No more thinking we can circumvent the odds for me. Just play and accept your fate. I will no longer entertain the we need to lose to get better view. Sorry. Is this not the lesson to learn? you cannot get better in the nba by being worse in a somewhat disingenuous way.

The "tank hard enough" rule has trumped it.. a team cannot "tank hard enough".

[H20Knick]

Oh ok... so we were doing what other teams did but under different rules? Lol

the 76ers got to repeatedly tank because their high picks were repeatedly injured. You tank until you get an elite player and then you try to build around them. This isn't a novel concept. No. I have zero desire to bring in vets to get meaningless wins if Durant/Kawhi doesnt come. Without one of them, we have zero chance at winning it all any time soon. So if that means im tanking, then sure, im still tanking. Im just acknowledging that I don't expect us to compete for the worst team in the league with RJ barrett on the roster. If we do that, then RJ Barrett isn't who i thought he was, which means that I will gladly take all the losses I can get.

[H20Knick]

It all comes down to "was it worth the risk"

and there was no risk lol. so what did we really lose here?

[taowave]

There is no question,tanking is not as richly rewarded as it was under the prior format..

But you cant simply say the worst team rarely gets the top pick...In 8 lotterys,with a 14% chance,they will LIKELY get the top pick..Almost as important ,they will get a top 5 pick in every lottery guaranteed.

Sell the farm now,win a bit more and you still get the higher pick is a figment of your imagination and not the reality that the mathematical odds/probability dictate..You are defying probability and statistics and were you a betting man would lose over time with enough events wagered on... This isnt complicated

By the way how can you say it was counterproductive to acquire better talent in hopes of winning when the pick was basically the luck of the draw not to mention unknowingly months away?

Its clear now... you think once you decide to give up because you can't win it all (loser mentality) you figure you mind as well keep losing although the outcome (even with higher odds) is completely random and as you say almost never holds up.

I say yo sell the farm and win now because even with a few more "important" wins in the nba you'll still get the higher pick. Remember the worse team rarely gets the top pick.

[gradyandrew]

If I were a suns fan, i'd be bitterly angry that we had to pick up ariza and crawford just to win a couple more games and cost us 3 spots in the draft. If I were a cavs fan, i'd be bitterly angry that we didnt trade kevin love and it cost us 2 spots in the draft.

You're premise is flawed. Worst 3 teams have the same chances at the top 4. Worst record is just for at worst the 5 pick. We just were lucky.

[taowave]

Whats going on here..Some of you are acting like should Fiz had released the hounds we would have won 35 games

And if you believe Red,30+ wins gets you a top 2 pick

Was that the risk???

and there was no risk lol. so what did we really lose here?

[big_j_NY]

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