Kawhi to NY?

[Don Che]

No argument there... just giving me more reason to want him in LA.

If he comes east...we gotta be the ones to lock it up

[StevoStarks]

I don’t want him. At least not next year.

Which probably means we’d be out of the running, if we ever were in it.

[Don Che]

Yeh next of season is welcome him no problem.

[dcapodic]

So, we have to have a guy that:

1. Hasn't played much b-ball in about 1 1/2 years because of injury.
2. Is 1 year away from being max contract eligible/free agent.
3. Is having issues playing on what many believe is the best run franchise in the league.
4. For who many people on this board have called the best coach in the league.

Etc, etc....

Stay the course, no quick fixes.

[StevoStarks]

So, we have to have a guy that:

1. Hasn't played much b-ball in about 1 1/2 years because of injury.
2. Is 1 year away from being max contract eligible/free agent.
3. Is having issues playing on what many believe is the best run franchise in the league.
4. For who many people on this board have called the best coach in the league.

Etc, etc....

Stay the course, no quick fixes.

I agree. Just don't want to be part of the drama and then bring over a superstar during a rebuild. Too much can go wrong with that concoction.

[big_j_NY]

So, we have to have a guy that:

1. Hasn't played much b-ball in about 1 1/2 years because of injury.
2. Is 1 year away from being max contract eligible/free agent.
3. Is having issues playing on what many believe is the best run franchise in the league.
4. For who many people on this board have called the best coach in the league.

Etc, etc....

Stay the course, no quick fixes.

This is probably the first time in many years on this forum where at least..........a big majority of members on here will probably agree with you for once.

NYKFP has finally begun to accept the rebuild (20 years later lol)

[gradyandrew]

I re-read the entire thread and no one said he doesn’t deserve it.

I personally asked the question cause I read where the Spurs had doubts about whether
he’d once again quit on the team. It also spoke of certain contractual agreements that needed to be met.

Dude, you yourself said "forcing them to give him the max-max." What does that mean except that he isn't worth it? Would you say LBJ and Durant are forcing a team to give them a super max? Teams line up for that opportunity! If Kawhi doesn't get injured, you don't think it's possible that he would already have his second finals MVP?

KRL's first post alluded to the same argument which Koopa and BPD agreed with. You didn't catch that when you reread the thread?

[gradyandrew]

The league is still pretty tight all the way around. There aren't that many teams with cap space so it will be at a premium. The Knicks have limited assets, and anyway, I thought that we were trying to build from within? There's no way Kawhi would want anything to do with us, why not go to Philly or LA instead? The mistakes of the past continue to ruin the present. Sadly the contracts of Baker and Noah add up to just nearly the amount that the Knicks would need to trade for Kawhi.

Actually Baker and Noah would be more, and what is your point? San Antonio wants players not cap space.

I'm slowly talking myself into a scenario where the Knicks get Kawhi.

Knicks trade: KP, Frank, Courtney Lee
San Antonio trades: Kawhi

Why Kawhi does it?

There's a ceiling on players in San Antonio. No matter what the player does, how many hours he puts in, the SA development program gets the credit. No matter how many game winners you hit, it'syou who are lucky to play with Pop. And no matter what you sacrifice or win, hey Timmy did it too.

It's a unique franchise in the NBA and for probably all but the best 5-10 guys in the league. But if you are one of those guys, hey, maybe you want more.

As franchises go, the Knicks probably offer the best chance to offer everlasting glory at the minimum. Imagine winning your first title in LA vs NY. Totally, totally different.

Plus you're in the East. Kawhi could look around the East and the team that LBJ carried to the Finals and feel pretty confident that him and whoever else is left on the Knicks could make it.

Why the Knicks do it?

It seems stupid to even get into it. There the biggest sluts in the league- they'll fuck anybody!

But in terms of the price. KP is an All Star not an MVP.

Why San Antonio does it?

It looks like negotiating has failed. San Antonio risks losing him for nothing. While Kawhi would take a hit, he'd have one season to show that he's not injured and then leave for a bigger market like KD. SA would be the biggest loser but maybe they'd rather that then lose their rep.

Kawhi as a tradeable asset is much more valuable with that extension but even then, I'm not sure Ainge wants to part with Tatum and Brown. They're much cheaper and they both look about 80% of Kawhi already. Trading Gordon doesn't make sense either. He's Brad's guy. Kyrie doesn't work in San Antonio either.

KP fits the mold of San Antonio players and would be learning from the best next to Pau and La Marcus. Same for Frank and Courtney. KP has a lot less leverage coming off his rookie contract. I don't think anyone doesn't resign with their team.

[shakespeare]

Oh, my bad, I didn’t re-read the entire thread. I should’ve said I re-read every post after your intial one. In it, you never mentioned anything about it, so I figured whatever post or posts questioning if he deserved must’ve occurred afterward.

Agreed, every team in the league lines up for the opportunity to give Kawhi a supermax.

I read an article that discussed Spurs possibly wanting Kawhi to prove a few things beforehand. So I used “forcing” as if to say Kawhi wasn’t trying to hear it.

[Pat91]

[gradyandrew]

Now SA is opening up the phone lines to all the teams in the East. Now it's time for Kawhi to give a list of which franchises he'll sign that extension with. Work those phones Steve!

[Koopa Troopa]

Now SA is opening up the phone lines to all the teams in the East. Now it's time for Kawhi to give a list of which franchises he'll sign that extension with. Work those phones Steve!

Im calling them up and offering Noah, Ron Baker and a second round pick.

Equal value to whatever the D Howard deal was

[gradyandrew]

Arron Arroyo was the key.

[Red]

I'm thinking about the last couple years since LBJ's decision to collude with his friends and join forces in MIA.

The 2 man tandem of Westbrook and Durant wasn't enough to beat the big 3. And as I type I'm reminded of the Boston big 3... then it wasthe Lakers big 3...

I'm listing the Mavs as an anomaly. Moving back to MIA's big 3. Throw a win in there w Kawhi and then its the big 4 who lost to the Cavs (who had a big 3).

So I'm thinking who can collude, conspire, plan to join forces? There's really not many options. A big 2 in OKC isn't enough. A big 3 in Houston when one is injury prone isn't enough.

We have a big 0. If we consider KP as part of a big 3 he'd probably be the weakest. For instance if we had Kyrie-Kawhi KP would not be on their level. Not that he wouldn't have value but he'd be the Bosh to the James-Wade big 3; the most expendable.

If you don't have a big 1 or 2, where at least 1 is an all nba talent, a two-way player, then you cannot win. We keep thinking that we can achieve this (gaining All-NBA talent) through the draft and theoretically every all nba talent came through the draft.

It seems like wishful thinking to believe we can draft a big 3-4. I'll agree KP can be considered part of a big 3-4 when healthy. We've heard players know KPs value but we have yet to see a player superior to him want to be here.
We assume because it was put out there by the press that NY is a preferred destination for Kyrie and Kawhi. Haven't we been down this road before? Smh... NY is assumed to be everyones preferred team at some point or another.

Anyway back to Kawhi an all nba level talent. If a team doesn't have an all NBA talent level guy paired with at least 1 to 2 allstar level guys it's basically bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I'm eliminating the draft and free agency as viable options for the knicks to acquire one of these guys. I don't believe the Knicks can:

1. Lose enough and tank properly (you know why) to get the chance of drafting all nba level talent. Either we win too much, botch the tank, or their gone off the board etc..
2. Clear cap offer and sign an all nba level talent (you know why)
3. Lose enough, draft high enough (what are the new rules?) and then cultivate for years some next all NBA level talent

And I'll assume Knox still has a chance because he's new/young but using him and KP as examples the Knicks need to pick top 4 to even have a chance at drafting all nba talent.

I can't remember when all nba talent wanted a did sign here. Let me see... ummm.... I definitely don't consider Melo that and even though we traded for him he supposedly wanted to be here but neither Melo nor Amare were the cream of the crop. All-stars but not all nba players at those points.

I'm eliminating FA as viable option.

That means by trade. Based on the past, IF any team values our assets enough to trade for them we would have to pounce on that when all nba talent is available if we want to acquire the proper weapons for this fight.

Offer any and every asset available for Kawhi and go from there. Our entire franchise is worth Kawhi Leonard.

[nazrmohamed]

No it's not. Our franchise is not worth any player who played only 9 games and is willing to leave an organization like the Spurs hanging. Shit, out of anybody who you should build around it's arguable that Kuwai is the weakest. I mean, in terms of all nba guys. Obviously he'd be our best player. It's still not known what he'd do in another system, he has go with the flow tendencies rather than a true alpha mentality himself and let's face it. In all his awesomeness the Spurs have been an afterthought since he was given the keys to the franchise. He did have an awesome finals one year but at the end of the day it was a performance....Not so much a culture.

LeBron is a culture
Jordan was a culture
Kobe was a culture
Shaq was a culture
I've seen guys who were worse, never win titles but were still cultures.

Kuwais great rep is that he's this seemingly egoless star whose such a good guy. Well he could forget that now. Asking for this trade eliminates all of that fake storyline. Now understand what I'm saying here. He's an awesome player, I'd love for the Knicks to have him but I'm not trading my whole team for him.


I don't think the Knicks deserve to trade for thier star player until they can get to the playoffs based soley on the players they've drafted. I don't think star players should be traded for, how's that. You either draft them or acquire them. Trading for them never works

[taowave]

Recent history has proven that a Big 3 beats a Big 2,but Houston with paul certainly had a chance as did OKC being up 3-1...

San Antonio is the model that shines....Great coaching,great fundamentals and good to great talent....

What GS has on top of everything else is LUCK. They dont have injuries when it matters most....The core somehow heals up when the going gets tough...

Sadly,you are dead right..At this moment in time,we have a Big 0...This KP injury is a nightmare...

I think this year we MUST lose enough.....That was 2 of your 3 options.and I am with you...

This is a gut rebuild

I'm thinking about the last couple years since LBJ's decision to collude with his friends and join forces in MIA.

The 2 man tandem of Westbrook and Durant wasn't enough to beat the big 3. And as I type I'm reminded of the Boston big 3... then it wasthe Lakers big 3...

I'm listing the Mavs as an anomaly. Moving back to MIA's big 3. Throw a win in there w Kawhi and then its the big 4 who lost to the Cavs (who had a big 3).

So I'm thinking who can collude, conspire, plan to join forces? There's really not many options. A big 2 in OKC isn't enough. A big 3 in Houston when one is injury prone isn't enough.

We have a big 0. If we consider KP as part of a big 3 he'd probably be the weakest. For instance if we had Kyrie-Kawhi KP would not be on their level. Not that he wouldn't have value but he'd be the Bosh to the James-Wade big 3; the most expendable.

If you don't have a big 1 or 2, where at least 1 is an all nba talent, a two-way player, then you cannot win. We keep thinking that we can achieve this (gaining All-NBA talent) through the draft and theoretically every all nba talent came through the draft.

It seems like wishful thinking to believe we can draft a big 3-4. I'll agree KP can be considered part of a big 3-4 when healthy. We've heard players know KPs value but we have yet to see a player superior to him want to be here.
We assume because it was put out there by the press that NY is a preferred destination for Kyrie and Kawhi. Haven't we been down this road before? Smh... NY is assumed to be everyones preferred team at some point or another.

Anyway back to Kawhi an all nba level talent. If a team doesn't have an all NBA talent level guy paired with at least 1 to 2 allstar level guys it's basically bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I'm eliminating the draft and free agency as viable options for the knicks to acquire one of these guys. I don't believe the Knicks can:

1. Lose enough and tank properly (you know why) to get the chance of drafting all nba level talent. Either we win too much, botch the tank, or their gone off the board etc..
2. Clear cap offer and sign an all nba level talent (you know why)
3. Lose enough, draft high enough (what are the new rules?) and then cultivate for years some next all NBA level talent

And I'll assume Knox still has a chance because he's new/young but using him and KP as examples the Knicks need to pick top 4 to even have a chance at drafting all nba talent.

I can't remember when all nba talent wanted a did sign here. Let me see... ummm.... I definitely don't consider Melo that and even though we traded for him he supposedly wanted to be here but neither Melo nor Amare were the cream of the crop. All-stars but not all nba players at those points.

I'm eliminating FA as viable option.

That means by trade. Based on the past, IF any team values our assets enough to trade for them we would have to pounce on that when all nba talent is available if we want to acquire the proper weapons for this fight.

Offer any and every asset available for Kawhi and go from there. Our entire franchise is worth Kawhi Leonard.

[Red]

08 Celtics traded for Ray Allen
09-10 Lakers traded for Gasol
13 GSW traded for Iguodala

I don't necessarily see it as deserve but more should take advantage of the opportunity to. The Celtics missed the playoffs the prior two seasons.

No it's not. Our franchise is not worth any player who played only 9 games and is willing to leave an organization like the Spurs hanging. Shit, out of anybody who you should build around it's arguable that Kuwai is the weakest. I mean, in terms of all nba guys. Obviously he'd be our best player. It's still not known what he'd do in another system, he has go with the flow tendencies rather than a true alpha mentality himself and let's face it. In all his awesomeness the Spurs have been an afterthought since he was given the keys to the franchise. He did have an awesome finals one year but at the end of the day it was a performance....Not so much a culture.

LeBron is a culture
Jordan was a culture
Kobe was a culture
Shaq was a culture
I've seen guys who were worse, never win titles but were still cultures.

Kuwais great rep is that he's this seemingly egoless star whose such a good guy. Well he could forget that now. Asking for this trade eliminates all of that fake storyline. Now understand what I'm saying here. He's an awesome player, I'd love for the Knicks to have him but I'm not trading my whole team for him.


I don't think the Knicks deserve to trade for thier star player until they can get to the playoffs based soley on the players they've drafted. I don't think star players should be traded for, how's that. You either draft them or acquire them. Trading for them never works

I don't see why you can't do both unless you trade your picks. And if you're acquiring someone better than your entire team Isn't that the point?

So if given the opportunity- you'd say we have a greater chance at drafting an all nba player than a former finals mvp in his 20's, changing teams and continue performing at an all nba talent level after a quad injury?

Sure?

[shakespeare]

Bruce Bowen rips Kawhi https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/06/23/fo ... er-injury/

[StevoStarks]

Bruce Bowen rips Kawhi https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/06/23/fo ... er-injury/

[gradyandrew]

Bruce Bowen, a guy who was famous for stepping on toes when guys would go up for a jumper- a sure fire way to rip someone's Achilles. C'mon. Kawhi was drafter to be Bruce Bowen 2.0 and the Spurs ended up with an MVP.

None of you caught that last summer?LaMarcia crapped the bed as soon as Kawhi got injured, and then Pops had a meeting with him to clear the air. WTF air was there to clear? You went to a team and lucked out to have your running man develop into an MVP and the reaction was somehow people have to apologize that you aren't shooting 20 jumpers a game? If Spurs had shipped LaMarcia's ass out, they wouldn't have this problem now. I don't buy that about the Spurs shit not smelling. Everyone makes mistakes.