[Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby taowave » February 12, 2018, 4:54 pm

Clyde was an All Star ath the PG...

The Pearl was an All Star PG..

Ditto for Zeke and to a lesser degree Dumars..

Thats vastly different than taking duds and trying to find a new home for them,hoping they can work out at the 2,or more far fetched the 3.

What makes you think if they cant excel at their selected position,they will excel at their default position??







Why?

What's wrong with having 2 talented guards running the show at the same time..

Clyde and Earl?

Not saying EM and Frank are like them..

Just because both can play on a off the ball doesn't mean you can play them together and be successful..

What's wrong with a SG who's able to defend, shoot and distribute the ball?..

Give me a complete year of EM/Frank and let them build that chemestry.. Maybe they can feed from each other and bring their games to a next level..

[/quote]
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby NYGM » February 12, 2018, 5:08 pm

Don Che wrote:Mudiay and Frank are inclined to get other players involved...you can't have too many playmakers.


id like to draft the best player in the top 7...which will be a front court guy and watch these 2 guards make their lives easier.


Ayton would drop BUCKETS with these 2 guys getting him the ball


The key for them is being able to defend their positions.. If you're playing on or off the ball should be able to defend your man..

Being both 6'5 helps a lot.. Frank with his lenght can defend multiple positions once he matures...

The main problem of playing 2 PG's is one or both not being able to guard other team's SG..

This won't be the case..

In offense, what is not to like? Hopefully Frank's shooting will improve dramatically next year, his form is really good IMO..
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby taowave » February 12, 2018, 5:08 pm

I think you guys are way ahead of yourself..

But there are reasons Mudiay was available. One of them? The Nuggets were 12.0 points per 100 possessions better with Mudiay off the floor than on it, per NBA.com—never a good sign. Also not a good sign: Mudiay ranks last among all point guards in defensive real plus-minus, per ESPN.com.

"He's not a good shooter, his defense is erratic, he's not a great playmaker," an Eastern Conference scout said. "He's got good size and is athletic, but what does he do? His value is somewhat predicated on the fact that he was the seventh pick, and so people think there must be something there."


There are other risks, too. For example, how will Mudiay's presence affect Ntilikina's development? Perry was adamant with reporters that the Knicks remain high on Ntilikina's future (the team, according to league sources, rebuffed numerous trade proposals for Ntilikina prior to Thursday's deadline). They think Mudiay and Ntilikina can share the floor, which they did for 28 minutes in Mudiay's Knicks debut Sunday against the Indiana Pacers (to the tune of an impressive plus-8.9 net rating, per NBA.com, in a 121-113 loss).

The Knicks still have high hopes for rookie guard Frank Ntilikina, despite the optics of bringing in another young point guard in Emmanuel Mudiay.

But both operate better on the ball, and neither is a sniper. Mudiay, a career 32.6 percent three-point shooter, has improved his stroke, drilling 36.2 percent of his triples this season, though the majority of that efficient shooting has come on spot-up attempts and from the corners, per NBA.com.

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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby H20Knick » February 12, 2018, 5:10 pm

yeah i mean, he was traded for doug mcdermott. let's realllly not get carried away here. Denver isn't notorious for giving up on prospects the way NY is... but when they picked up a better option at guard, what did they do? Let him go for pennies on the dollar.
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby NYGM » February 12, 2018, 5:37 pm

H20Knick wrote:yeah i mean, he was traded for doug mcdermott. let's realllly not get carried away here. Denver isn't notorious for giving up on prospects the way NY is... but when they picked up a better option at guard, what did they do? Let him go for pennies on the dollar.


Of course..

But he can develope, a lot of PG's and guards in general develope later.. If he was already an all star in Denver we couldn't have gotten him for McDermott right?
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby NewlyKnicked » February 12, 2018, 5:51 pm

Hopefully being traded for close to nothing may help EM realize playing in the nba is not a given for anybody. Work is crucial to stay and defense is 75% effort
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby taowave » February 12, 2018, 6:41 pm

I give him a limited pass as his playing in China was a really bad move..

Im still not buying the move to the 2 or the 3,unless you think hes Deshawn Stephenson,which is entirely possible



PHILADELPHIA — It’s the family’s biggest regret.

Jean-Micheal Mudiay said he believes younger brother Emmanuel’s career would look differently had he attended SMU and learned under Larry Brown for a season instead of going to China to play professionally after high school.

After two and a half underachieving seasons with the Nuggets, Mudiay was dealt to the Knicks at Thursday’s trade deadline and turned out a smoking debut Sunday in Indianapolis with a 14-point, 10-assist gem in 29 minutes.

“He’s on cloud nine right now,” Jean-Micheal told The Post in a phone interview from Dallas.

Jean-Micheal, who serves as Mudiay’s manager, played for Brown at SMU from 2013-2015 but never was as gifted as his 21-year-old brother.

“Had he played one year with Larry Brown, no doubt in my mind he would’ve been the No. 1 pick in the draft based on his talent,” said Jean-Micheal, who is 26. “He would’ve learned how to play the game of basketball. I know what he would’ve learned. After playing for Larry, I questioned every other coach I ever had in the past. I learned the actual game.

“So he didn’t have college basketball, didn’t get to play for Larry, and he’s been playing off athleticism his whole time.”

.
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby big_j_NY » February 12, 2018, 8:46 pm

I agree with Tao on Mudiay being a bad fit for a 3...........Mudiay is clearly not a SF, let's get real here guys. Mudiay is 6'5" and 200 lbs, even a 10 lb weight gain will not make him strong enough to play against other 3s in the NBA.......even if the league is moving into the direction where prototypical 2-guards are SFs.

But where I disagree with Tao is Mudiay not being a 2..........you're kidding me, right? Despite his lack of fundamental scoring mechanics, Mudiay has the perfect toolset to be a D-Wade/Oladipo type 2-guard in the NBA.

Hell, Wade himself was drafted into the NBA as a point guard.....then both Stan Van Gundy & Pat Riley thought Wade was better as a 2-guard, and Wade ended up thriving at that position.

I'm not guaranteeing that Mudiay will ever be Dwayne Wade, but fuck......who doesn't want a playmaking, wild card 2-guard on their roster alongside a "floor general/facilitating" lead guard?
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby nazrmohamed » February 12, 2018, 8:59 pm

Don Che wrote:i dont see a PG in this upcoming draft more talented than Mudiay.....and dont see a guard better on defense than Frank.

ofcourse if someone better comes along...go for it but I'd argue Mudiay at PURE TALENT is as gifted as any PG in this rookie class and the upcoming one.


its all about him putting it together.

Trae and Sexton are not in the same level when evaluating overall talent than Mudiay.


the next 2 draft classes are wing/big man heavy....the era of PG's is in a bit of a drought till 2020


Idk what you're watching then, seriously. I think you take analysts claims that this is a bad draft for pgs too literally. All it means is the talent pool is weak, not that every pg sucks. Trae Young would be the second best player on our team within 2 yrs, on day one he'd probably be as good as Burke has shown us now, for all the Burke fans out there. But that's probably his curve.
I think Sexton would be better as well. Dudes putting up 40pt games at the rim, Idk where you get off assuming Mudaiy would be better than anybody. Dudes fighting for his career at this point.
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby taowave » February 12, 2018, 9:17 pm

Typically the 2 guard should be able to shoot/slash and play D..

Hes been hoorible on D,and has been an awful shooter...

Yes,his 3 point shooting is respectable,but he has alot of work to do..

im just not sold on him...gut was touted as John Wall,and now we are lucky if he Desaun Stevenson..


big_j_NY wrote:I agree with Tao on Mudiay being a bad fit for a 3...........Mudiay is clearly not a SF, let's get real here guys. Mudiay is 6'5" and 200 lbs, even a 10 lb weight gain will not make him strong enough to play against other 3s in the NBA.......even if the league is moving into the direction where prototypical 2-guards are SFs.

But where I disagree with Tao is Mudiay not being a 2..........you're kidding me, right? Despite his lack of fundamental scoring mechanics, Mudiay has the perfect toolset to be a D-Wade/Oladipo type 2-guard in the NBA.

Hell, Wade himself was drafted into the NBA as a point guard.....then both Stan Van Gundy & Pat Riley thought Wade was better as a 2-guard, and Wade ended up thriving at that position.

I'm not guaranteeing that Mudiay will ever be Dwayne Wade, but fuck......who doesn't want a playmaking, wild card 2-guard on their roster alongside a "floor general/facilitating" lead guard?
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby nazrmohamed » February 12, 2018, 9:27 pm

Deshaun Stephenson is a very surprising yet possible comparison Tao. Good job. We really sick guys or else we wouldn't be talking about lottery picks so I agree with H20. We need to just take the best player available. I don't feel secure in any player on our team.
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby taowave » February 12, 2018, 9:32 pm

Sevenson was touted to be all World...Like Midiay,he should have gone to college..look at the report on Deshawn

Scouting report and comparison to G.O.A.T. were written while Stevenson was in high school and assumed to be headed to Kansas. Lessen learned, never compare anyone to Michael Jordan. This was 2000, the site was just getting started. Go watch a tape of Stevenson in high school, he was incredible. One of the most spectacular 17 year old wings you could ever see. Not going to college had a catastrophic effect on him. It seems everyone enjoys dis-crediting our expertise by bringing up the year 2000 DeShawn Stevenson comparison to MJ. We never went back and changed his comparison after it was originally made. Apologies to MJ.... Hey the "Sports Leader" compared Marshawn Brooks to Kobe Bryant just a few years ago





nazrmohamed wrote:Deshaun Stephenson is a very surprising yet possible comparison Tao. Good job. We really sick guys or else we wouldn't be talking about lottery picks so I agree with H20. We need to just take the best player available. I don't feel secure in any player on our team.
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby big_j_NY » February 12, 2018, 9:35 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:Deshaun Stephenson is a very surprising yet possible comparison Tao. Good job. We really sick guys or else we wouldn't be talking about lottery picks so I agree with H20. We need to just take the best player available. I don't feel secure in any player on our team.


H20 and me have always shared that mindset about this year's draft EVEN when Porzingis was healthy and winning games for us.

As a rebuilding team, we cannot afford to pick and choose how our talent fits yet.........we're not in a position to be consistent winners, so we should always go and draft the best possible talent at our draft slot no matter whether they fit our current star player's playing style or not.

Even when you brought up Ayton and Mamba as possible draft choices (doubt we'll get them, but still.......), I never disagreed b/c the fact is.......who wouldn't want to rebuild with 2 skilled big men in the frontcourt? One unicorn and one big monster alongside one another. Obviously Doncic is the obvious fit, but even if Doncic wouldn't mesh well with KP...........talent-wise, you'd be stupid not to draft him.

taowave wrote:Sevenson was touted to be all World...Like Midiay,he should have gone to college..look at the report on Deshawn

Scouting report and comparison to G.O.A.T. were written while Stevenson was in high school and assumed to be headed to Kansas. Lessen learned, never compare anyone to Michael Jordan. This was 2000, the site was just getting started. Go watch a tape of Stevenson in high school, he was incredible. One of the most spectacular 17 year old wings you could ever see. Not going to college had a catastrophic effect on him. It seems everyone enjoys dis-crediting our expertise by bringing up the year 2000 DeShawn Stevenson comparison to MJ. We never went back and changed his comparison after it was originally made. Apologies to MJ.... Hey the "Sports Leader" compared Marshawn Brooks to Kobe Bryant just a few years ago


Sounds a hell of a lot like Lance Stephenson currently
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby nazrmohamed » February 12, 2018, 9:38 pm

Marathon Brooks did look like Kobe in those draft videos though. I got fooled.
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby taowave » February 12, 2018, 11:12 pm

Elfrid Peyton....9 minutes,7-7,16 pts 6 rebounds in the first quarter against Golden State....fuck me
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby gradyandrew » February 13, 2018, 1:24 am

Mudiay and Frank are just horrible shooters now. Maybe if they were to miraculously learn how to make a 3 pointer you guys would be onto something about the two of them starting together, but both of them are below average shooters and below average at the rim, so I don't see how it works long term.
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby gradyandrew » February 13, 2018, 1:30 am

taowave wrote:Elfrid Peyton....9 minutes,7-7,16 pts 6 rebounds in the first quarter against Golden State....fuck me


He's way better than any of our PGs but giving up Frank or even a pick for half a year before having to resign him, not worth it. I still think it's weird that we didn't move Jack for a 2nd round pick, seems like a lot of playoff teams need a backup PG.
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby taowave » February 13, 2018, 6:32 am

Payton went for a second rounder..

We got another position less player...
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby nazrmohamed » February 13, 2018, 7:02 am

This trade deadline sucked, for real. McDermott wasn't "for nothing", he was a great floor spreader for us and unlike say a guy like Novak, he was always backdoor cutting, he could make shots inside the arc. I really liked McDermott. We gave up on WHG too.

We basically gave up WHG and McDermott for Mudaiy when if we wanted a young pg to create all this confusion we could've simply given up a 2nd rounder for Payton.
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Re: [Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

Postby NewlyKnicked » February 13, 2018, 7:17 am

WHG wasn't part of the deal for Mudiay.

The price dropped drastically for Payton all of a sudden. There was interest from Perry to get a player he drafted but Orlando asked for more than a 2nd rounder from us from what i read. We then moved on Mudiay who is younger and has a longer contract as well. The Magic pressed the panic button sending Payton to Phoenix (also their 2nd round pick is more interesting than ours).

As for Doug, he isn't "nothing" but he wasn't doing anything for us for a long while. I also liked him as he provided a skillset that nobody else had here and I still cant understand what happened for him to disappear like that, but the truth is he wasn't playing anymore.
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