12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (L 107-119)

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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby KnicksRUs » December 29, 2017, 2:47 am

maxinquaye11 wrote:Jack Ntilikina 2pg played well.

Ball movement and lots of assists for Frank.

Hornacek slowly coming around.

Jack
Ntilikina
Lee
Kp
Kanter

It is time.


Can you just cut the shit with your weird PG fetish? It's beyond fucking annoying. More so than Phil Jacksons fetish with the triangle. Learn to adjust your ideas to the roster dude.

2 PG can be successful if you HAVE TWO COMPETENT POINT GUARDS a la Paul/Harden. It's NOT a hard concept to comprehend.
Last edited by KnicksRUs on December 29, 2017, 3:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby KnicksRUs » December 29, 2017, 2:56 am

Jack continues to be awful. It doesn't matter that Hornacek is letting Frank finish the games because we're getting killed starting the games and starting the 2nd half. Frank needs to be 30+ every night and Jack needs no more than 12 minutes.

Baker continues to be awful (and he made his one obligatory hustle play with the 3 attempt at the end of the third quarterly which is apparently all Hornacek cares about). I don't understand why he has completely put Dotson in the dog house. He's lightyears more valuable than Baker in terms of what he brings defensively and shooting. Hornacek just loves playing his fucking white dudes.

I'm glad we're been losing. It'll force Hornacek to make lineup changes or his head will be on the chopping block.
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Championship 16/17 » December 29, 2017, 10:09 am

rebound wrote:As for coaching prospects I like the idea of hiring a winning euroleague coach since this team is heavily international.



We need Mark Jackson, but it's too soon to acquire his services. We will eventually get a good American player, at the deadline or possibly through the draft (prefer Doncic). The Lakers are looking to acquire DeMarcus Cousins at the deadline, and I think we should intercept that by getting a packaged centered around Kanter. We need balance, going full Euro is a mistake in my opinion. A coach like Mark Jackson can channel DeMarcus Cousins where he can be that draymond green/rasheed wallace type of player for us, that protector. What I love the most about his game this season is the 5 assists, which would fit in nicely in our already established moving the ball passing game. Go after DeMarcus or a SF that has yet to be identified at the deadline. We need to make a splash at the trade deadline.
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby KnicksRUs » December 29, 2017, 10:44 am



I'm done watching Jack get shredded to start games and putting us in a whole.

IT'S TIME HORNACEK
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby KRL » December 29, 2017, 11:15 am

The next 6 weeks leading up to the trade deadline are going to be interesting. With
the schedule getting tougher we can easily dive and the front office will have to
make the following decisions:

- Will they bring up Trey Burke from the G-League and cut Sessions?

- Will they promote Ntilikina to starter?

- Can they trade Lee and/or O'Quinn to playoff teams for draft picks? Opening up
playing time for Dotson and Hernangomez
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby nazrmohamed » December 29, 2017, 1:02 pm

KnicksRUs wrote:Jack continues to be awful. It doesn't matter that Hornacek is letting Frank finish the games because we're getting killed starting the games and starting the 2nd half. Frank needs to be 30+ every night and Jack needs no more than 12 minutes.

Baker continues to be awful (and he made his one obligatory hustle play with the 3 attempt at the end of the third quarterly which is apparently all Hornacek cares about). I don't understand why he has completely put Dotson in the dog house. He's lightyears more valuable than Baker in terms of what he brings defensively and shooting. Hornacek just loves playing his fucking white dudes.

I'm glad we're been losing. It'll force Hornacek to make lineup changes or his head will be on the chopping block.


Nothing you said is wrong but this team just don't got enough talent man. When you're rebuilding and just wanna see guys develop then you apprecieate Baker and Dotson. But let's face it, these guys might not be in the league except that we signed them.

Hardaway is hurt
KP is definitely a good player but still inconsistent and Frank is your typical 3 year rookie.

Those are our true assets. Maybe you add in Kanter as a long term piece. I'd like to see Willy at least redeem his potential. But the rest of this team should be sold off for cap space and picks and I think fans will regret this run we went on 3 yrs from now.

We need more ying top tier assets. TOP TIER. Not good role players to plug in (exclusively that is, you always need good role players) but guys who might actually compete for future franchise player.

Until then, I don't get these Hornicek critiques as if this team should be contending
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Brooklyn » December 29, 2017, 1:32 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:Nothing you said is wrong but this team just don't got enough talent man. When you're rebuilding and just wanna see guys develop then you apprecieate Baker and Dotson. But let's face it, these guys might not be in the league except that we signed them.

Hardaway is hurt
KP is definitely a good player but still inconsistent and Frank is your typical 3 year rookie.

Those are our true assets. Maybe you add in Kanter as a long term piece. I'd like to see Willy at least redeem his potential. But the rest of this team should be sold off for cap space and picks and I think fans will regret this run we went on 3 yrs from now.

We need more ying top tier assets. TOP TIER. Not good role players to plug in (exclusively that is, you always need good role players) but guys who might actually compete for future franchise player.

Until then, I don't get these Hornicek critiques as if this team should be contending


+1

I know we're here to debate and an open debate considers all options but eventually you have discard bad ideas from good ones or we'll be stuck in a loop.

for 15 years we've blamed the coach or the star player....and maybe sometimes that was right but we started this season expecting to be one of the worst teams in the league and we're not......we should be kissing Hornacecks ass not bashing him because we struggle with elite teams on the road.

The defense has been vastly improved, the offense is revamped and the locker room is healthy. What remains is that there are way too many guys on this team that CANNOT create their own shot and the PG position is shaky at best which is why you see us struggle when opposing D's lock in.

Hornaceck is a GOOD coach...with Timmy hitting his stride before his injury we were a 5th/6th seed in the East and thats a fucking accomplishment for a team expecting the lottery. If the team is performing below its talent capacity then I'd be in agreement that we need a new coach but to kill a guy for maxing out current talent and falling short is just a case of frustration and misplaced blame.

We could have had Popovich here and the result wouldn't have been very different, not because Hornaceck is equal to Pop but because this is all THIS team can do.
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Don Che » December 29, 2017, 1:38 pm

I agree Nazr but all those things are a process....Kawhi wasnt the number 1 guy as a rookie...neither was PG/Jimmy Butler/Greak Freak/Hayward and these are the types of guys we need moving forward.

while i TOTALLY agree we need more talent no doubt about it and we have 3 picks to get us to that point but just remember if we get the 1st pick or 12th or 21st chances are....the guy we pick wont be the number 1 guy on a playoff bound team.

Frank in 2 years might be our best player....Dotson might be a rotation player or starter in 2 years...really hard to tell where things project.

Doncic wont be our best player next year if we get him...maybe on offense but I see him getting torched on defense and the position he plays(guessing the 3) remember your having Tim starting also....when the Lebrons/KD's/PG's of the world come to town...you think Doncic is gonna be the guy to limit them? lol

i guess ultimately my point is...9/10 you draft defense/motor/IQ/work ethic from picks 3-25. and just hope the offense grows down the line.

Get guys who can pass and make the right play on both ends from your veterans so atleast when your "defensive minded" player grows to be a overall basketball player you have a team ready to maximize them and know how to play the right way.

While things are not perfect....i can't say we are far from that direction.

but I'm all in for starting Frank.
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Don Che » December 29, 2017, 1:44 pm

Brooklyn is 1000000000000000000% right

ppl who bash Jeff dont even comprehend that another coach couldnt do better with this squad.

look at how many players on this team are having career years.

Tim was out the NBA this time last year....Beasley also...Jack was out the year...Doug wasnt in a rotation...Lee is ahving a career year at 32....KP was a 3rd option...Lance should thank the heavens everyday he wakes up in the NBA...thats 7 players...who am i missing? oh yeh a 19 year old rookie from overseas lol


we are supposed to be in the lottery...around 8th pick or so ...and things may just end there at the end of all this...but understand that if we win more than 35 games this year...everyone needs to put respect on Jeff's name.
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby taowave » December 29, 2017, 1:50 pm

Exactly....Jeff has way over performed expectations up to this point,and that is with Hardaway Jr out..
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Don Che » December 29, 2017, 1:58 pm

moving forward my issues are mostly based on the roster before the staff

1. How good will Frank be when its all said and done.
2. Is Kanter really a championship level player next to KP
3. Tim.....same question as 2
4. Which Center do we get rid of for some athletes/shooters at the 4/3/2
5. Beasley.....yup just question all of it
6. Is Doug a rotation sniper on a championship team? hes better overall than i thought but hes not the knock down shooter i thought also

.........then I worry about Jeff lol...if all 5 gets resolved and we still win 34 games.....i look at Jeff
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Koopa Troopa » December 29, 2017, 8:02 pm

taowave wrote:Exactly....Jeff has way over performed expectations up to this point,and that is with Hardaway Jr out..


Has he though? Does a good coach have Enes Kanter shooting a three with 10 seconds left? Does a good coach give Ron Baker a long leash? Is a good coach OK with not feeding his best player down the stretch? Does a good coach lose 90 percent of road games? Jeff is out there getting out coached practically every night. :?

Don Che wrote:ppl who bash Jeff dont even comprehend that another coach couldnt do better with this squad.


Jeff is not getting away free here. "With this roster" is such a bad excuse. The Bulls roster is way worse and won. So whos arguing the Bulls are more talented than this team?

You at least beat teams with less talent than yours, whether youre home or away. I just want to know what in game adjustment has Jeff ever made?

Sure you can keep him and let him learn from his mistakes...but he doesnt learn. They had Danny Green out there wide open all day, he was not made a priority...I was having flashbacks of Kyle Korver....Did Jeff have the flashback too or did he forget about that?

And seriously, every game they lose, Jeff is getting interviewed and he has that nervous smile. Theres just something not right with this guy. And how many losses do we hear "Just put this one behind us, it was a bad game." How about learn from your mistakes? :?
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Championship 16/17 » December 30, 2017, 1:34 am

Don Che wrote:moving forward my issues are mostly based on the roster before the staff

1. How good will Frank be when its all said and done.
2. Is Kanter really a championship level player next to KP
3. Tim.....same question as 2
4. Which Center do we get rid of for some athletes/shooters at the 4/3/2
5. Beasley.....yup just question all of it
6. Is Doug a rotation sniper on a championship team? hes better overall than i thought but hes not the knock down shooter i thought also

.........then I worry about Jeff lol...if all 5 gets resolved and we still win 34 games.....i look at Jeff


1. Frank's ceiling is Penny Hardaway
2. No
3. Maybe, needs to be 3rd or 4th option
4. Kanter
5. No need
6. No
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Don Che » December 30, 2017, 6:11 am

:thumbsup: Lol issue is champ everytime I believe that about kanter he goes and grabs 15 rebounds or does something wild and we win because of him and I wonder... maybe I(we are wrong)

If frank is penny...we golden

And issue with Tim needing to be the 4th option that tells me he should be the 6th man then when its all said and done. Unless he can get his assists to the 5-6 range and we get plus defenders at the 3/5(or 4) spots
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Championship 16/17 » December 30, 2017, 9:37 am

Don Che wrote::thumbsup: Lol issue is champ everytime I believe that about kanter he goes and grabs 15 rebounds or does something wild and we win because of him and I wonder... maybe I(we are wrong)

If frank is penny...we golden

And issue with Tim needing to be the 4th option that tells me he should be the 6th man then when its all said and done. Unless he can get his assists to the 5-6 range and we get plus defenders at the 3/5(or 4) spots


I want to see how Kanter plays against DeMarcus Cousins tonite. Interesting point on Tim Hardaway, I could also see him as a 6th man if we were to draft/acquire better players at the 2 and 3 position. For example, we trade Kanter for a legit all-caliber SF and draft Doncic for SG, then THJ and his 17 mil will have to come off the bench. THJ plays very well with Courtney Lee and Quinn, and our bench would be the best in the league. This scenario could happen, gotta start finding new homes for Lance & McDermott, who should be included in any Kanter trade.
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby cheftom » December 30, 2017, 12:11 pm

Just my 2 cents...

I think we should change the coach.

Of course the new coach will need an adjustment period. Then it will be important to get him a roster that fits his style of coaching.

After that, they will need some time to gel.

Of course if any of the old players don't fit the new system, they should be traded. Too bad that we won't be able to get value back, because that is what happens when you have to trade a player that doesn't fit.

If this doesn't work, then maybe we get rid of the GM or team president. The new president can then make some roster changes. If they don't work he can change the coach.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Anyone else notice how strongly coaching and roster stability correlate with success in the NBA?
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby nazrmohamed » December 30, 2017, 1:06 pm

^^^^why? What about where we are tells you that we need a new coach? Our best player is 23 yrs old and then the next best is a 30yr old journeyman or arguably a 25 yr old backup C. We don't need a new coach. Jeff's doing great for all intents and purposes, too great I might add. We've already exceeded what I'd consider the desired win total necessary to get us what we need, which is a franchise altering draft pick next year.


See folks, here you go. You asked for it. Expectations. Now it's about who needs to be fired or traded. But not traded to land us more projects. Who needs to be traded for pastchjob players in an attempt to compete. I fear a win streak. A little won streak and next thing we'll start hearing are trade scenarios using our pick to get mediocre stars. Just wait and see
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby nazrmohamed » December 30, 2017, 1:07 pm

Isiah Thomas- you can't rebuild in NY.
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby spree#8 » December 30, 2017, 1:56 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:^^^^why? What about where we are tells you that we need a new coach? Our best player is 23 yrs old and then the next best is a 30yr old journeyman or arguably a 25 yr old backup C. We don't need a new coach. Jeff's doing great for all intents and purposes, too great I might add. We've already exceeded what I'd consider the desired win total necessary to get us what we need, which is a franchise altering draft pick next year. ...

Nazr, you should read the small sized sentence by cheftom.

Championship 16/17 wrote:
I want to see how Kanter plays against DeMarcus Cousins tonite. Interesting point on Tim Hardaway, I could also see him as a 6th man if we were to draft/acquire better players at the 2 and 3 position. For example, we trade Kanter for a legit all-caliber SF and draft Doncic for SG, then THJ and his 17 mil will have to come off the bench. THJ plays very well with Courtney Lee and Quinn, and our bench would be the best in the league. This scenario could happen, gotta start finding new homes for Lance & McDermott, who should be included in any Kanter trade.


It won't. Baby steps. We trade maybe one guy of the current team (O'Quinn) for a pick, maybe release another (Sessions) to call up a G-league prospect and that's about it for this season. No coaching change, no fire sale. Just little adjustments, once we are eliminated from playoff contention at the end of January or early February.

nazrmohamed wrote:...
See folks, here you go. You asked for it. Expectations. Now it's about who needs to be fired or traded. But not traded to land us more projects. Who needs to be traded for pastchjob players in an attempt to compete. I fear a win streak. A little won streak and next thing we'll start hearing are trade scenarios using our pick to get mediocre stars. Just wait and see


Why? The next easy part of the schedule is in March. Before that? A lot of games we will lose. Unless KP gets back to his early form, gets more durable and gets more rebounds. THJ also would've to come back at a high level and even then we would've to play above expectations again. Lots of stuff would've to go our way for another big winning streak. Nothing to fear.

BTW: even if we somehow would go on another winning streak, there won't be a stupid trade. Nothing gives me that impression when it comes to the current regime running the ship.
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Re: 12/28/17: New York Knicks @ San Antonio Spurs (8:30 pm)

Postby Championship 16/17 » December 30, 2017, 4:41 pm

It will, and shoot for the stars. You don't trade O'Quinn who is the heart and soul of this team and will probably give you a home town discount. Also nobody is giving us a 1st round pick for O'Quinn bc nobody can see or realize his true value, you put him on a contender and I guarantee we regret trading him. I said the Knicks will make a splash at the trade deadline back in Nov and that's what they should do. I only agree with is not making a coaching change and waiting for next season or letting him play out his contract.
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