12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (L 101-104)

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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby maxinquaye11 » December 23, 2017, 7:53 pm

best way is to have sessions as back up pg and frank as the sg. Take away Ron from the rotation. Tall and long arms frank is one of the best shooters we have. Better than Baker I reckon. What Baker can deliver at the 2 spot, Frank can do better alongside Jack no question.

We need more scoring penetration and intelligent pick and roll. We all know that Sessions is capable of delivering that in back up minutes. Watch his videos.Doing so we can now have both jack and frank out there on the floor closing games. Before everyone goes on a tirade, I say this thinking that Frank doesn't necessarily have to start. He will simply replace Baker as back up 2 guard and can play alongside sessions more.

If frank was the one holding that ball instead of Baker, the right pass would've happened. You all know it. Btw, Frank's physique, skill-set and ability is closer to THJ. So until Tim returns, we go with Sessions Ntilikina.

I want to see Sessions contribute. This guy is no bum on a rookie contract trying to make it. He is a NBA player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQE6qv_z47o&t=66s
Last edited by maxinquaye11 on December 23, 2017, 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby KnicksRUs » December 23, 2017, 8:12 pm

What the fuck are you talking about? Frank is absolutely not one of our best shooters. Developing, yes, but he's got a ways to go.

His 2nd strongest skillset behind his defense is his court vision which obviously is best utilized at the point. You're literally the only person in the world who wants to put him at SG

How is it that EVERYTHING you post I find to be complete nonsense? It's comical
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby KnicksRUs » December 23, 2017, 8:15 pm

Jack and Sessions are sometimes serviceable, but are largely bums. Why in Gods name would you want to find ways to give them more minutes
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby Muzhik1 » December 23, 2017, 8:18 pm

The sad part is that Hornacek is as stubborn as Larry Brown when it comes to his rotations. I have never seen a Knicks coach so unwilling to play rookies since Larry Brown.

In fact, I think that if he was coaching the Knicks during KP's rookie season, he would have started KOQ instead.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby maxinquaye11 » December 23, 2017, 8:20 pm

Your hate has blinded you Spongebob.

Frank is not just one of our best shooters, he is one of our best shooters in the CLUTCH.

He just needs to be more aggressive offensively which can happen once you position him at 2-guard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtdyuW2BWBk
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby maxinquaye11 » December 23, 2017, 8:24 pm

Muzhik1 wrote:The sad part is that Hornacek is as stubborn as Larry Brown when it comes to his rotations. I have never seen a Knicks coach so unwilling to play rookies since Larry Brown.

In fact, I think that if he was coaching the Knicks during KP's rookie season, he would have started KOQ instead.


Hence why I suggest that Frank goes two-guard until Tim returns . It is so that Hornacek's ego of vets over rookies will be respected still. Its realistic. You have to consider the principles of the coach also. The one with the biggest ego.

Is Ntlikina not one of our best shooters Muz? Ntllikna can shoot three pointers off the dribble like THJ. Baker? I don't think so.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby Muzhik1 » December 23, 2017, 8:32 pm

As long as Frank plays, I don't mind him playing 1 or 2 guard. Baker should not be playing on an NBA team. He is 24, so his upside is questionable.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby maxinquaye11 » December 23, 2017, 8:36 pm

Muzhik1 wrote:As long as Frank plays, I don't mind him playing 1 or 2 guard. Baker should not be playing on an NBA team. He is 24, so his upside is questionable.


Right on. My point exactly.

you're absolutely right that our coach will not start a rookie above a vet. This is the only plausible way to get more minutes for Ntilikina.

Now that leaves us with the question of whether Frank is a a legit shooter or not.

https://dailyknicks.com/2017/12/13/new- ... his-range/

I supported baker but the last games have shown me that he is turnover prone in close game situations. This guy is a combo, not a natural cerebral point guard. No 2pg there.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby taowave » December 23, 2017, 10:53 pm

That Frank Baker backcourt is downright scary when pressured. Not a great combo to day the least.Frank needs a better handle...

On a positive note Frank is up to 35 percent from deep,and the guy wreaks havoc on D

maxinquaye11 wrote:
Right on. My point exactly.

you're absolutely right that our coach will not start a rookie above a vet. This is the only plausible way to get more minutes for Ntilikina.

Now that leaves us with the question of whether Frank is a a legit shooter or not.

https://dailyknicks.com/2017/12/13/new- ... his-range/

I supported baker but the last games have shown me that he is turnover prone in close game situations. This guy is a combo, not a natural cerebral point guard. No 2pg there.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby gradyandrew » December 24, 2017, 1:25 am

Jeff plays two point guards so all the bitching about Frank not starting is pointless. Who cares? Frank has finished a fair number of games and has played the entire 4th when he's been effective. Franks shooting is much improved, he hit two in a row vs Detroit and had a steal then dunked it. His biggest struggle is having the strength to power through to the hoop, but he's 19 years old. Frank is best in transition and still struggles against defenses in the half court. If you get in front of Frank on the break he usually has to pull back to set the offense.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby gradyandrew » December 24, 2017, 1:32 am

Muzhik1 wrote:As long as Frank plays, I don't mind him playing 1 or 2 guard. Baker should not be playing on an NBA team. He is 24, so his upside is questionable.


One thing I like about Baker is that he is pretty relentless about driving it to the hoop. A lot of those drives end in turnovers or missed shots, but especially if Kanter is,playing a missed layup often gets put back. He and Frank are active enough to press, a tactic that can usually throw a team off for a few plays.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby gradyandrew » December 24, 2017, 1:35 am

Minkaveli wrote:They are but this team was supposed to win 20 games. If they can get it together after Christmas they can get to 40. Also a back to back and no Timmy.


They played a shitty game on the road against a .500 team and were up 4 with a minute left.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby spree#8 » December 24, 2017, 8:37 am

Sometimes I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

Hornacek not playing rookies? Ntilikina plays over 20 MPG, exactly what you hope for when you build up the second youngest player in the league, and has finished lots of games, played through many whole fourth quarters - so where is the hesitation to play him? The only young guy that sees not enough time (Hernangomez) isn't seeing the time, because O'Quinn has outplayed him.

The backcourt duo of Ntilikina/Baker not a good combo? WTF? The two guys have a +9.5 net rating, which is the second best two-man combo when Ntilikina is on the court behind only Ntilikina/Porzingis. Scary pressuring the opponent, not the other way around. https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... neups/2018

Ntili's strength being transition? What? The guy is so far a half-court general that doesn't even push on a lot of possessions. This is one area where he has to improve a lot.

Bad rotations? All guys that play are contributing and we sit at 17-15 above expectations, build on a fantastic 15-5 home record.

To this game in particular: we had a chance to win it on the road against a team considered above our level, so that was good. Lost it because of bad execution down the stretch, but where without THJ, who has been brilliant in clutch situations so far. https://stats.nba.com/players/clutch-tr ... PTS&dir=-1 and https://stats.nba.com/players/clutch-tr ... NUS&dir=-1
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby taowave » December 24, 2017, 9:37 am

Spree,did you watch the end of the Detroit game?

Both Frank and Baker have a shaky handle.

Beasly saved them in the Boston game.

I'm not saying it's s bad pairing,but it's a dicey roll of the dice. Neither guy can break down the D..

We are 16-14,and I have zero complaints.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby spree#8 » December 24, 2017, 3:54 pm

taowave wrote:Spree,did you watch the end of the Detroit game?

Both Frank and Baker have a shaky handle.

Beasly saved them in the Boston game.

I'm not saying it's s bad pairing,but it's a dicey roll of the dice. Neither guy can break down the D..

We are 16-14,and I have zero complants.


Yes, did watch. We had a turnover. End of story for me. BTW: Ntilikina wasn't on the floor, Jack was with Baker on that possession.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby taowave » December 24, 2017, 4:00 pm

Opie is lucky to get any playing time,and Frank needs to improve his handle.If you can't see that,not sure what to say.


spree#8 wrote:
Yes, did watch. We had a turnover. End of story for me. BTW: Ntilikina wasn't on the floor, Jack was with Baker on that possession.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (7:00 pm)

Postby cragganmor » December 24, 2017, 6:56 pm

Cut Baker some slack. Guys should not wonder why we rarely develop our own young players when you heap ridiculous expectations on them; as spree said they are an effective combo. He's a soph, so cut the kid some slack for this season, he's made excellent progress on his shooting from the arc, at 45% plus a sparkling defensive efficiency of 105. I don't think you can realistically as more from a UDFA. Take this a necessary growing pains, an investment in a better future.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (L 101-104)

Postby nazrmohamed » December 24, 2017, 11:00 pm

I know one thing Cragg. I read that the combo of Frank and Baker are in the 97th potential of defensive duos. Never heard the percentile thing before but that's what it said. So I guess Baker does have a role, I just don't think it ever gets bigger than this and if we go in the direction I'm looking for it probably reduces.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (L 101-104)

Postby maxinquaye11 » December 24, 2017, 11:03 pm

2 crucial passing turnovers against boston to maintain the lead in the last few minutes and 1 crucial pass vs Detroit to take the lead off a timeout.
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Re: 12/22/17: New York Knicks @ Detroit Pistons (L 101-104)

Postby taowave » December 25, 2017, 10:33 am

At this point in time,watching Frank and Baker trying to initiate the offense in crunch time is one scary ride.

They are both shooting much better from deep,but that in no way speaks about their lack of ability to break down the D and score or create for others.

Beasly made both of the look good.They made it past half court and handed the ball off to Beaz.Beasly wasn't on fire to save them against Detroit.

Again,this isn't a knock against either and when Hardaway comes back we won't be discussing this..
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