It's time to start questioning Perry

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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby H20Knick » January 5, 2018, 10:18 am

Jarrett Jack wasn't likely to even make the roster and Sessions peaked in his 2nd nba season... This was all about finding a veteran sage for Frank who wouldn't get upset when Frank was finishing games. I don't like much about Perry's track record and anti-tank comments, but he did an OK job with the point guard corps I think. There is no advantage to winning games.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby taowave » January 5, 2018, 11:18 am

There is ZERO advantage to winning games and not making the playoffs.....

This squad needs a top 5 pick....






H20Knick wrote:Jarrett Jack wasn't likely to even make the roster and Sessions peaked in his 2nd nba season... This was all about finding a veteran sage for Frank who wouldn't get upset when Frank was finishing games. I don't like much about Perry's track record and anti-tank comments, but he did an OK job with the point guard corps I think. There is no advantage to winning games.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby nazrmohamed » January 5, 2018, 12:27 pm

I got no problem with Perry. We smoky never know with the Knicks what the plan really is or how handcuffed a GM is. And I don't think Dolan even knows what to say anymore. He gave isiah too much power and failed, then got involved with Walsh and failed, then left Warkentien alone and had some success, then hired Phil and gave him total control and failed, now WTF does he do?

Whatever that is, Perry would've had to agree with it when he got here. So in the absence of knowledge I'll say Perry's doing ok. In reality he hasn't done much. We signed Hardaway and drafted Frank before he got here. The Melo trade gave us a mediocre return. Nothing horrible but nothing exceptional.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby spree#8 » January 5, 2018, 12:55 pm

Still: no./thread
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby taowave » January 7, 2018, 8:24 am

Spree,if he doesn't make some smart moves and we go into a massive slide,everything he said about a winning culture is lip service.

Or he's a closet tanker..


spree#8 wrote:Still: no./thread
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby nazrmohamed » January 7, 2018, 10:32 am

He should've been a closet tanker all along. And yes, it's lip service. I've come to the conclusion that unless you want to tank you pretty much......well you just don't understand in politest terms. And a lot of times GMs just have to say what those hate tanking want to hear.

Nah but for real, they gave us a roster where most likely we'd tank but with just enough that if we play well can say we overachiever. Sorta like a rebuilding team where the pieces fit. I actually like allot of our fits, I just think we lack top tier talents.

We need one more player DRAFTED with KPs level of potential and then we still gotta draft guys good enough to simply slide into the roles our older veterans now hold.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby Don Che » January 7, 2018, 1:10 pm

Idt it was lip service nor hes a closet tanker....he's allowing this roster to dictate what they are....and go from there that's what it should be not a premeditated notion without letting them prove what they are. Its not like they were gonna trade picks and kids for vets

Now that things are getting bad....watch us make a trade for future assets but its gonna be clear that this roster was given a chance and wasn't good enough.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby taowave » January 7, 2018, 1:47 pm

As long as he makes an INTELLIGENT move,he is true to his word.

He wants a willing culture,so be it
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby spree#8 » January 7, 2018, 4:36 pm

We are building towards a winning culture. Doesn't mean that winning 26 games all season wouldn't be OK. As long as we tried as hard as we could (initially). Which we do (did) right now (so far). So I have no idea what you are getting at, Tao. :?

We put a roster together and let Hornacek see what he could do with it. If it's good enough to make the playoffs? Fine. If it's not good enough, we increase the playing time for the youngsters and get a higher draft pick. Also fine.

BTW: The latter is expected.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby Muzhik1 » January 7, 2018, 5:45 pm

We should see how he manages the trade deadline and the off season, but so far he has not done much.

Granted, he traded Carmelo, but I feel like he could have waited to see what Portland could come up with. Not getting at least one first round pick for Carmelo was weak. Carmelo would have eventually waived his no-trade clause for them.

Now we are stuck with Kanter's huge contract and a logjam at the center position.

It's not a bad trade, but he could have played poker and got a better deal. Worst case scenario, he could have just let Carmelo play this season knowing that he would have most likely opted out at the end of it.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby Mr3037 » January 7, 2018, 6:01 pm

Muzhik1 wrote:We should see how he manages the trade deadline and the off season, but so far he has not done much.

Granted, he traded Carmelo, but I feel like he could have waited to see what Portland could come up with. Not getting at least one first round pick for Carmelo was weak. Carmelo would have eventually waived his no-trade clause for them.

Now we are stuck with Kanter's huge contract and a logjam at the center position.

It's not a bad trade, but he could have played poker and got a better deal. Worst case scenario, he could have just let Carmelo play this season knowing that he would have most likely opted out at the end of it.


Good post Muz.

I dont think we can crucify him just yet. I'm still fine with the Melo trade, yeh Kanter's contract is huge BUT he's shown enough where he's at least earning his $ or keeping his trade value at a pretty high level.

Noah though...... :? :hammer: :hmm:

As per Muzhik1's post we need to see how he manages the trade deadline, our logjam at C, what to do with Jack/Sessions & what's gonna happen with Burke.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby taowave » January 7, 2018, 6:43 pm

Spree,winning 26 games flat out sucks.
26 games is tanking,but smart management will put a pretty ribbon on it and sell it to the numnuts who drink Kool Aid.

Perry wants s winning culture,get some decent pieces and win some dam games. Hardaway is paid 18 mil per,Kanter is a pleasant suprise and KP is supposedly a unicorn.

Peryy wants a winning culture,no tanking.Follow thru


26 wins is tanking,let's call it what it is



spree#8 wrote:We are building towards a winning culture. Doesn't mean that winning 26 games all season wouldn't be OK. As long as we tried as hard as we could (initially). Which we do (did) right now (so far). So I have no idea what you are getting at, Tao. :?

We put a roster together and let Hornacek see what he could do with it. If it's good enough to make the playoffs? Fine. If it's not good enough, we increase the playing time for the youngsters and get a higher draft pick. Also fine.

BTW: The latter is expected.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby Mr3037 » January 7, 2018, 7:13 pm

taowave wrote:Spree,winning 26 games flat out sucks.
26 games is tanking,but smart management will put a pretty ribbon on it and sell it to the numnuts who drink Kool Aid.

Perry wants s winning culture,get some decent pieces and win some dam games. Hardaway is paid 18 mil per,Kanter is a pleasant suprise and KP is supposedly a unicorn.

Peryy wants a winning culture,no tanking.Follow thru


26 wins is tanking,let's call it what it is



So tao are you suggesting that Perry should try and make some trades before the deadline to get us to the next level? I'm all for us having a winning culture, I'm just not sure we can trade our way to anything better than the 8th seed and that's IF we end up making trades that work out heavily in our favour.

We just dont have the trade pieces I dont think. Especially if we wanna keep Kanter, which I am fine with.
IF we can trade any or all of Lance, Noah or Baker I'd do it.
I'd release Sessions and bring in Burke.

To be honest I wanted us to tank and tank hard at the start of the season. Then we started playing well, were like 6th in the EC and looked like we still had room to improve. Injuries etc took their toll and now we have lost 7 of our last 8 games. Fact is we may try and still end up with a bad record.

Although to end up with 26 wins would mean we go 8-35 from here on which I cant see us doing.

If we are playing the long game there has to be a point in the season where we draw a line in the sand & either push for a playoff birth or rule that out completely, shut down guys like KP & Tim and start planning towards next season.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby spree#8 » January 7, 2018, 7:32 pm

What exactly sucks about 26 wins? That should be a very good draft pick. Smart management wants to build a winning culture, but doesn't mind losing in our situation and adjusts accordingly. I don't even understand what you are upset about. When you have a guy like KP in his third season, the team will try to make the playoffs at the start of the season. If they can't make it, you focus more on youth and go from there. Once you "go from there" you can call it tanking. Why not? It's all about adjustments - for management too.

Anyways: we can close this thread, because there is nothing to question Perry about. We haven't made any bad moves since he took over (a good Melo trade and some minimum signings is all we have done), so the time to start questioning him will be when he finally makes a mistake, not now.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby taowave » January 7, 2018, 7:38 pm

Yes,if possible,I would like to see some of our glaring flaws addressed. Making the playoffs would be a huge step in the right direction.

I'm very confused with Kanter starting and then riding pine every 4th quarter.

Jack can't break down the D,can't guard anyone and Baker is not 4th quarter material..

Wouldn't mind seeing Burke





Mr3037 wrote:
So tao are you suggesting that Perry should try and make some trades before the deadline to get us to the next level? I'm all for us having a winning culture, I'm just not sure we can trade our way to anything better than the 8th seed and that's IF we end up making trades that work out heavily in our favour.

We just dont have the trade pieces I dont think. Especially if we wanna keep Kanter, which I am fine with.
IF we can trade any or all of Lance, Noah or Baker I'd do it.
I'd release Sessions and bring in Burke.

To be honest I wanted us to tank and tank hard at the start of the season. Then we started playing well, were like 6th in the EC and looked like we still had room to improve. Injuries etc took their toll and now we have lost 7 of our last 8 games. Fact is we may try and still end up with a bad record.

Although to end up with 26 wins would mean we go 8-35 from here on which I cant see us doing.

If we are playing the long game there has to be a point in the season where we draw a line in the sand & either push for a playoff birth or rule that out completely, shut down guys like KP & Tim and start planning towards next season.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby taowave » January 7, 2018, 7:41 pm

I love 26 wins...I said that from day one.But it's tanking..Perry spoke up and said he wasn't down with it.

Well then,let's get into the playoffs.

spree#8 wrote:What exactly sucks about 26 wins? That should be a very good draft pick. Smart management wants to build a winning culture, but doesn't mind losing in our situation and adjusts accordingly. I don't even understand what you are upset about. When you have a guy like KP in his third season, the team will try to make the playoffs at the start of the season. If they can't make it, you focus more on youth and go from there. Once you "go from there" you can call it tanking. Why not? It's all about adjustments - for management too.

Anyways: we can close this thread, because there is nothing to question Perry about. We haven't made any bad moves since he took over (a good Melo trade and some minimum signings is all we have done), so the time to start questioning him will be when he finally makes a mistake, not now.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby spree#8 » January 7, 2018, 10:29 pm

The only thing Perry said is, that he isn't losing on purpose and that the playoffs would be a good experience. He never stated that the playoffs are his goal. Actually he said that this year is about development, which is as close to saying he is OK with a high draft pick as it gets. But whatever.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby Mr3037 » January 7, 2018, 11:20 pm

Not only that, it's not like Perry can come out and say 'Yeh we hope to lose as many games this season as we REALLY need that pick next year.....BUT we are going to look like we are trying!'

Realistically I dont think anyone really expected us to push for a playoff spot did they?

Last year we finished 12th in the EC and ended up with the 8th pick. I think we will hang around within a few games of the 8th spot only to end up maybe 11-13th in the EC. Meaning we end up with a very similar pick.
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby Rusty La Rue » January 8, 2018, 4:50 am

Muzhik1 wrote:We should see how he manages the trade deadline and the off season, but so far he has not done much.

Granted, he traded Carmelo, but I feel like he could have waited to see what Portland could come up with. Not getting at least one first round pick for Carmelo was weak. Carmelo would have eventually waived his no-trade clause for them.

Now we are stuck with Kanter's huge contract and a logjam at the center position.

It's not a bad trade, but he could have played poker and got a better deal. Worst case scenario, he could have just let Carmelo play this season knowing that he would have most likely opted out at the end of it.


WHAT :? Kanter huge contract... He has a player option for next year and that is it... and even if he picks it up he is earning his money with his play... I hate the assumption that Melo would have done this or that because we will never know... The only thing we knew was that Melo had a no trade clause therefore he had to accept any trade... we have no idea what was said between Perry and Melo so assuming that just waiting longer would have gotten us a better deals makes no sense...
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Re: It's time to start questioning Perry

Postby taowave » January 8, 2018, 10:03 am

Part of my job is that,” Perry said. “Like I told you guys in the beginning, I don’t want to discuss trade specifics, thoughts of that matter, but again my role and job as general manager is to keep your eyes open to how you can best serve your basketball team and enhance not only the culture, but enhance your ability to win. That’s part of my daily grind.”
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