The future of the Atlantic divsion

Discuss New York Knicks news, current events, players, and history.

Moderators: wallace044, rtn393, Irv, cru77jones

The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby ISIAH_THOMAS » November 16, 2017, 11:51 pm

Man that celtics team led by there coach has bright future. Just beat the warriors

Simmons and embiid are a problem

The knicks have their work cut out for them. We once again seem like an afterthought
TAKE THAT FOR DATA
User avatar
ISIAH_THOMAS
 
Joined: October 13, 2014, 11:25 pm

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby bobhait » November 17, 2017, 12:36 am

doesn't even matter - winning the division may be the point of prestige, but doesn't affect playoff seeding anymore. just gotta be one of the best 8 in the East now, and let's see where we are in the next few years ourselves. not like we don't have the talent to compete going forward
Hornacek Era prelude
User avatar
bobhait
 
Joined: January 1, 2005, 1:56 am
Location: new york

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby Don Che » November 17, 2017, 4:43 am

We need another home run draft pick....no matter where we pick
User avatar
Don Che
 
Joined: September 23, 2007, 4:53 pm
Location: Queens

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby Championship 16/17 » November 17, 2017, 10:54 am

The future and present is Boston. A lot of people on this board thought Kyrie wasn't that good, but now he is showing the world who he is. People also thought Boston lost that trade, smh. Even when IT gets healthy, the Cavs will be no more. It's too late. If you go back to my post, I said put Kyrie in a structured system and watch him take off. He was essentially a one on one player in LeBron system. Boston trajectory will only keep getting higher and we are not catching them unless we stop loving and signing mediocre players. The IT's, the Avery Bradley's, the Jaw Crowders were not good players, they were fillers that Boston management didn't get attached too. Jalen Brown was always behind the scenes developing, and once he was ready, Avery was gone. You only sign the best. The only players on the Knicks that can be a championship caliber squad is: KP, FN, Courtney Lee, Willy, Quinn, and THJ (what Tim
has is the ability to show up like a Reggie Miller in big games, he exceeds his talent level, that's what puts him over the mediocre line). The rest of the players you increase their value and ship them for something better, dont get attached to mediocrity.


And like Don says, we need another high draft pick, so KP mid season elbow surgery should be scheduled to drop us back down in the standings.

Lastly, you need a system. Jeff Hornacek will never take us there, he is 2nd tier to Mike Dantonio, and offensive coach. And Mike didnt get there. You need Mark Jackson, who implemented the defensive schemes that Steve Kerr still used today.

Get Mark Jackson for next season or the season after. And either way making these changes puts us at the level of the Sixers and Boston. Just at their level. Then it's a race on who's young talent becomes better.
Championship 16/17
 
Joined: May 31, 2015, 4:18 pm

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby shakespeare » November 17, 2017, 11:17 am

ISIAH_THOMAS wrote:Man that celtics team led by there coach has bright future. Just beat the warriors

Simmons and embiid are a problem

The knicks have their work cut out for them. We once again seem like an afterthought


I said this two years ago: Remember?

If I'm not mistaken, both teams will receive another one of the top picks in the '18 Draft.

New York needs more All-NBA talent on the roster, preferably via the draft.
The Porzingis blessing is real.
User avatar
shakespeare
Writer
 
Joined: June 28, 2004, 2:43 am
Location: Manhattan, NY

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby cragganmor » November 17, 2017, 11:40 am

Need a long, athletic sf that can defend, pass, dribble, shoot the 3 a bit.
User avatar
cragganmor
 
Joined: December 7, 2003, 9:35 pm
Location: New York City

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby ISIAH_THOMAS » November 17, 2017, 11:47 am

I said this two years ago: Remember?

If I'm not mistaken, both teams will receive another one of the top picks in the '18 Draft.

New York needs more All-NBA talent on the roster, preferably via the draft.[/quote]
Yeah.
Lakers being bad is bad for the Knicks because their pick goes to Boston or sixers.this team really is going to need another top end talent.
TAKE THAT FOR DATA
User avatar
ISIAH_THOMAS
 
Joined: October 13, 2014, 11:25 pm

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby shakespeare » November 17, 2017, 11:49 am

Championship 16/17 wrote:People also thought Boston lost that trade, smh. Even when IT gets healthy, the Cavs will be no more. The IT's, the Avery Bradley's, the Jae Crowders were not good players, they were fillers that Boston management didn't get attached too.


Celtics definitely lost the trade. They gave up arguably their best defensive player and best offensive player and most likely the 1st or 2nd pick in the upcoming draft and you believe they won the trade? Kyrie offsets all of that talent?

How?

Do you really believe Kyrie Irving is the lone reason they're a good team? They were a good team before Kyrie arrived. They reached the Eastern Conference Finals last season with Thomas and Crowder and Bradley as their core offensive/defensive players, executing Coach Stevens' sets and schemes.

And you wanna act like this current Celtics team led by Kyrie has accomplished more after 16 games? Don't they need to actually win the EC Finals before you can prove as much?

Cavs will be no more? Celtics are not beating the Cavs in a playoff series. That's crazy talk to believe otherwise.

If what you're saying is true, and it isn't, then explain Detroit's 10-4 record with Avery Bradley damn near looking like their best overall player. Bradley is one year older than Kyrie. Thomas is one year younger than Westbrook. Crowder is the same age as Gordon Hayward.

How can you honestly downplay the key players that carried the majority of the load for the Celtics last season? Let's put Thomas' scoring into perspective: Porzingis has been on fire this season. I think he averages in the neighborhood of 29 points per game after 14 games. Thomas averaged 29 points per game for the entire season last year.

That doesn't mean anything to you?
Last edited by shakespeare on November 17, 2017, 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Porzingis blessing is real.
User avatar
shakespeare
Writer
 
Joined: June 28, 2004, 2:43 am
Location: Manhattan, NY

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby shakespeare » November 17, 2017, 11:50 am

ISIAH_THOMAS wrote:this team really is going to need another top end talent.


AGREED.
The Porzingis blessing is real.
User avatar
shakespeare
Writer
 
Joined: June 28, 2004, 2:43 am
Location: Manhattan, NY

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby rebound » November 17, 2017, 11:56 am

bonga or musa in 2018.

hopefully the lakers dont give boston or philly a top 3 pick in 2018.
Team Mills
User avatar
rebound
 
Joined: January 22, 2004, 12:42 am

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby spree#8 » November 17, 2017, 1:11 pm

Championship 16/17 wrote:People also thought Boston lost that trade, smh. Even when IT gets healthy, the Cavs will be no more. The IT's, the Avery Bradley's, the Jae Crowders were not good players, they were fillers that Boston management didn't get attached too.


shakespeare wrote:Celtics definitely lost the trade. They gave up arguably their best defensive player and best offensive player and most likely the 1st or 2nd pick in the upcoming draft and you believe they won the trade? Kyrie offsets all of that talent?

How?

Do you really believe Kyrie Irving is the lone reason they're a good team? They were a good team before Kyrie arrived. They reached the Eastern Conference Finals last season with Thomas and Crowder and Bradley as their core offensive/defensive players, executing Coach Stevens' sets and schemes.

And you wanna act like this current Celtics team led by Kyrie has accomplished more after 16 games? Don't they need to actually win the EC Finals before you can prove as much?

Cavs will be no more? Celtics are not beating the Cavs in a playoff series. That's crazy talk to believe otherwise.

If what you're saying is true, and it isn't, then explain Detroit's 10-4 record with Avery Bradley damn near looking like their best overall player. Bradley is one year older than Kyrie. Thomas is one year younger than Westbrook. Crowder is the same age as Gordon Hayward.

How can you honestly downplay the key players that carried the majority of the load for the Celtics last season? Let's put Thomas' scoring into perspective: Porzingis has been on fire this season. I think he averages in the neighborhood of 29 points per game after 14 games. Thomas averaged 29 points per game for the entire season last year.

That doesn't mean anything to you?


You are both wrong, it is a good trade for both teams, no one lost that trade (yet). :P

@Championship: IT, Bradley and Crowder are definitely good players and I have no idea why you sell them short. Bradley wasn't part of that trade though. He was traded because they a) didn't want to extend him in 2018 (same with IT) and because b) they needed a bigman instead of a guard after their free agent signing (Hayward), their draft pick (Tatum) and the trade with the Cavs.

It is a fantastic trade for the Celtics, because Kyrie is a defensive upgrade over the 5"9' Thomas and he is at the same offensive level for overall probably five more years than Thomas. He is three years younger and physically more gifted while Thomas is a small guard (known to age faster) and just had an injury which should even increase the risk of his career slowing down earlier. This matters immensely in a contract year for Thomas. While signing the one to a five-year maximum deal in 2018 is a huge risk, getting the other is an upgrade short- and long term.

Trading Bradley in the other trade (whom they also didn't want to extend) and including Crowder while bringing in Hayward opened up the playing time which is needed to develop their top talent Brown and Tatum alongside Irving. To include the draft pick to finally go for that star player Ainge coveted was possible, because he already reloaded with the extra draft pick they get from the Lakers in 2018 or the Kings in 2019 through trading down from 1 to 3 this year. So Ainge is doing all the right moves (not extending the wrong guys) and getting the talent in while still having the extra draft picks at the same time.

For the Cavs this will only be a bad trade considering they wanted to move Irving after his trade request, if Thomas walks at the end of the year AND the Nets pick isn't a top five pick (which it still should be). So for Boston it is definitely a good trade, while it should be a good one for the Cavs considering the circumstances.

Still interested to hear though - the discussion probably better placed in that thread - Shakes, do you still think that the Cavs upgraded this year like mentioned in the following thread? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39949 Because right now it looks more like Irving bolting after three consecutive Finals appearances killed their morale and we still don't know if the oldest team in the NBA will start to mesh. That being said, we just saw LeBron's greatness in our heartbreaking loss and Thomas still hasn't played for the Cavs yet, so we can't really make a judgment this early. For the record: I still think that the Cavs will make the Finals this year, but the trade will allow the Celtics to really shoot for the championship and in a longer window starting after the return of Hayward.
Last edited by spree#8 on November 17, 2017, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#knickstape
User avatar
spree#8
 
Joined: June 5, 2006, 1:21 pm

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby Championship 16/17 » November 17, 2017, 1:16 pm

shakespeare wrote:
Celtics definitely lost the trade. They gave up arguably their best defensive player and best offensive player and most likely the 1st or 2nd pick in the upcoming draft and you believe they won the trade? Kyrie offsets all of that talent?

How?

Do you really believe Kyrie Irving is the lone reason they're a good team? They were a good team before Kyrie arrived. They reached the Eastern Conference Finals last season with Thomas and Crowder and Bradley as their core offensive/defensive players, executing Coach Stevens' sets and schemes.

And you wanna act like this current Celtics team led by Kyrie has accomplished more after 16 games? Don't they need to actually win the EC Finals before you can prove as much?

Cavs will be no more? Celtics are not beating the Cavs in a playoff series. That's crazy talk to believe otherwise.

If what you're saying is true, and it isn't, then explain Detroit's 10-4 record with Avery Bradley damn near looking like their best overall player. Bradley is one year older than Kyrie. Thomas is one year younger than Westbrook. Crowder is the same age as Gordon Hayward.

How can you honestly downplay the key players that carried the majority of the load for the Celtics last season? Let's put Thomas' scoring into perspective: Porzingis has been on fire this season. I think he averages in the neighborhood of 29 points per game after 14 games. Thomas averaged 29 points per game for the entire season last year.

That doesn't mean anything to you?


1. Bc those players where average, Kyrie is great and he will be the MVP this season.

2.Brad Stevens system is great and it maximized average players talent to the ECF in the weak east. You put great system with great talent, you have the anecdote. There not a good team right now, their a great team. 1st in the league in defense foo.

3. I feel Boston can beat the Cavs in a 7 series game RIGHT NOW. Boston needs one more player to take them over the hump (watch what happens around the trade deadline) to offset the players Cavs will get back from injury. It's a long season.

4. Avery Bradley is an average player and has taking that winning culture with him to Detroit from Brad Stevens. But Coach Stan Van Gundy system is average too, they have a good record bc of the combination if good average players. The dont have the anecdote, they are overachieving right now, they will drop back down to 5 or 6th team. Between average and good. Lastly, I would say Tobias Harris is leading that group not Bradley, from the one game I saw against the knicks.
Championship 16/17
 
Joined: May 31, 2015, 4:18 pm

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby Don Che » November 17, 2017, 4:10 pm

IDT we need 5 all stars to win it all...if you get 2 legit all stars(2 way players) 1 all star defensive(or rebounding) caliber player and 2 high IQ role players and your good to go.

KP is 1 all star.

Frank and Tim have to see where they end up. I can see Frank being that all star defensive caliber player.

While I dislike Tim's game...if hes dropping 20 a night for a playoff teams thats either an all star or one of the 2 high IQ role players.

Looking at the Warriors when they were enjoyable to watch and home grown:

Curry/Klay are legit all stars.

Dray is the defensive all star

Bogut/Barnes were role players
User avatar
Don Che
 
Joined: September 23, 2007, 4:53 pm
Location: Queens

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby thewatcher » November 17, 2017, 4:33 pm

KP, Tim, and Frank will be all-stars before their career's are over, multiple times.
n8 the gr8 wrote:
The first rule of NYKFP is you don't talk about NYKFP.
User avatar
thewatcher
 
Joined: September 12, 2007, 8:19 am

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby Don Che » November 17, 2017, 5:12 pm

KP yes.....i can't say the same about Tim and Frank

Tim and Frank can be in the Milsap rule...aka guy who are important to a winning team but arent really "all stars" so to speak. most all stars these days are more glorified role players.

And in that sense if we win 50 games as a team..Tim/Frank will be placed in as a technicality but I'm not sure thats the case.
User avatar
Don Che
 
Joined: September 23, 2007, 4:53 pm
Location: Queens

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby thewatcher » November 17, 2017, 5:21 pm

Don they aren't there yet, if everything goes right, Tim by the end of the year for maybe next year, and Frank in a couple years. Tim is getting better every game. Rebounds and Assists, I'm astonished. And more and more patient, like the game kepps getting slower for him.
n8 the gr8 wrote:
The first rule of NYKFP is you don't talk about NYKFP.
User avatar
thewatcher
 
Joined: September 12, 2007, 8:19 am

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby Don Che » November 17, 2017, 5:23 pm

I totally agree...things are looking good but I wouldnt put in all star nominations in their future just yet...especially Frank...kid is tentative with 15 foot jumpers...and cant finish at the rim.

I think those things can be ironed out but I think Donovan Mitchell is going to be an all star in 3 years. Ben Simmons is gonna be an all star in 3 minutes....Frank I want to see him start for 30 minutes and evaluate again there.
User avatar
Don Che
 
Joined: September 23, 2007, 4:53 pm
Location: Queens

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby thewatcher » November 17, 2017, 5:31 pm

Yes Donnavan mitchell looks a lot like Lillard. Franks going to take longer, his body has to catch up.

And Simmons...dude is going to be the best player in the league at some point.
n8 the gr8 wrote:
The first rule of NYKFP is you don't talk about NYKFP.
User avatar
thewatcher
 
Joined: September 12, 2007, 8:19 am

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby bobhait » November 17, 2017, 5:51 pm

one step at a time - yesterday everybody was in tank mode, now we are worried that we won't be competing for a championship within the next two years. let the team develop, and let's see what our new GM can build here
Hornacek Era prelude
User avatar
bobhait
 
Joined: January 1, 2005, 1:56 am
Location: new york

Re: The future of the Atlantic divsion

Postby Don Che » November 17, 2017, 5:55 pm

Yeh man....if there was a Ben Simmons in this draft...id be captain of this tank brigade

but there isnt so...lets see what they can do.

Donovan was built like a man for a couple years now...also has a good motor and insane athleticism.

Frank needs to be a thinker of the game and be a TRUUUUEEEE point guard and no i dont mean a guy who doesnt score but a guy that always looks for the best shot.

If Frank tries to be a guy that drops 20 a night hes gonna fail but if he commits to being a point guard and takes what the defense gives him...I can see him follow a Mike Conley,Mookie Blaylock and Derek Harper mold

main thing that gives me hope for him being trully special is that hes flat out better than those guys were at 18 and he has better physical tools.

a 6'6 Mike Conley is a top 10 PG
a 6'6 Mookie Blaylock is a hall of famer
a longer quicker Harper is an all star

so those are the things I'm looking forward to seeing in regards to his progress. But his priority as a player should be Defense/passing/good decisions with the ball/ clutch shots.
User avatar
Don Che
 
Joined: September 23, 2007, 4:53 pm
Location: Queens

Next

Return to New York Knicks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Championship 16/17, Google [Bot] and 10 guests