Kemba 2019!

Discuss New York Knicks news, current events, players, and history.

Moderators: wallace044, rtn393, Irv, cru77jones

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby n8 the gr8 » November 19, 2017, 11:46 am

Koopa Troopa wrote:Back in the day you could use your hands to defend at the 3pt line. Now you better not touch anyone. Elite PG's are unstoppable in the PnR with the rules of today. 90 percent of championship teams from the last 2 decades had one.

I know you're not really going to defend this but to prove this incorrect I need 3 exceptions over 20 years.
5x Derreck Fisher
2x Mario Chalmers
1x Tony Parker (2014)
1x Jason Kidd (2011)

Convince me that 7 of those championship teams had an elite PG. :hmm:
Trust Gaines
Doncic 2018
User avatar
n8 the gr8
 
Joined: August 28, 2006, 6:54 pm
Location: CT/VT

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby Koopa Troopa » November 19, 2017, 3:42 pm

Parker and Kidd were not elite?

And I guess you need Kobe and Shaq otherwise....or a Lebron super team. Good luck with that. Unless the Knicks sign Giannis to play with KP....no way.
User avatar
Koopa Troopa
 
Joined: June 28, 2003, 9:01 pm
Location: Queens

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby nazrmohamed » November 19, 2017, 6:11 pm

They were elite but when you said elite don't lie, you meant in scoring didn't you? Kidd has never been elite at anything other than being one of the best passers in history. It sorta proves my point. He'd actually be at the top tier of the Pgs I prefer.

But let's for arguments sake expand the argument to include teammates. So you get two players, one of which is a pg, the other plays any other position. I would probably prefer any combination where the better player is the non pg. And hey, if the Pg needs to be elite than so be it. But when Marbury/ Garnett was a duo I felt like Marbury value would've been how well he could set up Garnett. Chris Pauls value is about how he set up Griffin. Acme in some cases I'm ok with a HUGE difference in skill level like Fisher/Kobe, Kidd/Dirk, Beverly/ Harden.

But I just cant think it awesome to watch a point guard average 25pts while dishing out 6assists unless you're running a Princeton offense and Webber and Divas are your bigs.
PHISHER
User avatar
nazrmohamed
 
Joined: December 16, 2004, 8:06 pm
Location: Rockland, Ny

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby taowave » November 19, 2017, 8:16 pm

If Kemba is on our radar in 2019,we have FAILED.
taowave
 
Joined: July 7, 2005, 8:54 pm

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby Koopa Troopa » November 19, 2017, 11:15 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:They were elite but when you said elite don't lie, you meant in scoring didn't you? Kidd has never been elite at anything other than being one of the best passers in history. It sorta proves my point. He'd actually be at the top tier of the Pgs I prefer.

But let's for arguments sake expand the argument to include teammates. So you get two players, one of which is a pg, the other plays any other position. I would probably prefer any combination where the better player is the non pg. And hey, if the Pg needs to be elite than so be it. But when Marbury/ Garnett was a duo I felt like Marbury value would've been how well he could set up Garnett. Chris Pauls value is about how he set up Griffin. Acme in some cases I'm ok with a HUGE difference in skill level like Fisher/Kobe, Kidd/Dirk, Beverly/ Harden.

But I just cant think it awesome to watch a point guard average 25pts while dishing out 6assists unless you're running a Princeton offense and Webber and Divas are your bigs.



I dont get what Im arguing. No matter what Kidd's scoring numbers were, he was still always a threat to score which is why he was a great passer. No doubt that Kidd greatly benefitted from the all the defensive rule changes throughout the 90s that led to what the game is now. He had speed, strength, and a skillful post game. He was ELITE!

Ask Warriors fans if its awesome to watch Curry drop however many buckets and bring back rings. Or see Kyrie drop 40 in the finals and bring in a ring. And its not just scoring, most of these guards are among the league leaders in assists. They are creating a ton of easy opportunities for their teammates with the havoc the create. Not sure exactly why Knick fans are so against great point guard play all of sudden??? Do the fans love mediocrity? I mean we even see fans here saying they dont want LeBron. I guess we are institutionalized to just love being awful. Winning is not in our DNA as fans.

Lets not sign star players. "Lets make sure KP leaves so we can continue the rebuild forever!" will be a potential future topic in the NYKFP.
User avatar
Koopa Troopa
 
Joined: June 28, 2003, 9:01 pm
Location: Queens

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby n8 the gr8 » November 19, 2017, 11:38 pm

Koopa Troopa wrote:Parker and Kidd were not elite?

And I guess you need Kobe and Shaq otherwise....or a Lebron super team. Good luck with that. Unless the Knicks sign Giannis to play with KP....no way.

You really just going to blatantly ignore the age those guys were playing at in those series because they were elite at some point in their career? Kidd averaged 8, 5 and 6 in the finals, Parker averaged 18 and 5. Besides you can't just add a caveat after the the statement that discards 7 of the last 20 championships. It changes your message from "you need an elite PG" to "you need an elite PG OR you need one of the best players in the league" which isn't a bold statement. But then if Miami winning a chip with Chalmers as the starting PG doesn't count because Lebron was on the team then Cleveland winning a chip with Irving doesn't count towards the importance of an elite pg because Lebron was on the team.

But even if we forget about the 7 chips won by Lebron and Kobe. I think Ntilikina could be as good as almost-retired Kidd, old Parker or even Chauncey Billups.
Trust Gaines
Doncic 2018
User avatar
n8 the gr8
 
Joined: August 28, 2006, 6:54 pm
Location: CT/VT

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby n8 the gr8 » November 20, 2017, 12:05 am

You know what just for shits and giggles:
17 Curry- elite
16 Irving- elite but also had Lebron
15 Curry- elite
14 Parker- used to be elite, arguably not elite in this series
13 Chalmers- in no way elite
12 Chalmers- not elite
11 Kidd- used to be elite, definitely not in this series
10 Fisher- not elite
09 Fisher- not elite
08 Rondo- became elite, but clearly the 4th best player on that team and not elite at that time, averaged 9, 4 and 7
07 Parker- elite in this series but still not the best player on his team
06 Jason fucking Williams- clearly not elite
05 Parker- at 22 years old averaged 14, 2 and 3 I don't think that's elite
04 Billups- 21, 3 and 5 I don't know arguably elite but mostly great team play
03 Parker- at 20 years old averaged 14, 3 and 4 Tim had arguably one of the worst supporting casts of a player to win a championship the last 2 decades
02 Fisher- not elite
01 Fisher- not elite
00 Fisher- not elite
99 Avery Johnson- good but not elite
98 Harper- not elite

This argument just doesn't hold up. "You need one of the best players of the generation" and define it as Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, Curry (the only elite pg that really got a chip for his team), Jordan and Duncan. That leaves you with the 08 Celtics, the 04 Pistons and the 11 Mavs that got a little bit lucky and had really good overall teams.
Trust Gaines
Doncic 2018
User avatar
n8 the gr8
 
Joined: August 28, 2006, 6:54 pm
Location: CT/VT

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby KnicksRUs » January 19, 2018, 10:44 am

Hornets putting Kemba Walker on trade market

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22152521/charlotte-hornets-open-trading-kemba-walker

Kemba 2018? Thoughts?

I love Frank but would give him up in a heartbeat for Kemba. I could see Frank being the desirable young asset the Hornets want along with other assets.
"Fat chicks need lovin too, but they gotta pay"
User avatar
KnicksRUs
 
Joined: December 12, 2011, 3:39 am

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby taowave » January 19, 2018, 11:09 am

No fucking way..you must be a Uconn HOmer :D
taowave
 
Joined: July 7, 2005, 8:54 pm

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby Don Che » January 19, 2018, 11:20 am

I wouldnt give up anything for Kemba

look at the deal that got CP3/PG13/Melo .....now dial that down by 10 since he's never been an all star and never went deep in the playoffs....and I'd offer that.

Knicks do need to make a decision on....playoffs or no playoffs.

Kemba is a guy you get if you want playoffs now




but a part of me has always wanted MKG here....he can't shoot but hes an athlete and hes a dog...plus fits the timeline of Frank/KP..maybe the change of scenery is what he needs
User avatar
Don Che
 
Joined: September 23, 2007, 3:53 pm
Location: Queens

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby spree#8 » January 19, 2018, 11:57 am

Doesn't fit our timeline IMO. I rather build around KP, THJ, Ntili and a better draft pick, than trading away our current rookie prospect AND worsen our 2018 pick. Gives us much more flexibility. We need good players on rookie contracts, so we can extend KP, have THJ as a high-priced veteran and still can go out in free agency once we clear Noah etc., because our other investments are still on rookie contracts. If we trade for accomplished players, those shouldn't be older than 25-26.

Depends on the asking price though, not saying that he couldn't be part of a good trio with KP and THJ. Just saying, that I wouldn't break the bank for him. Maybe the timing would be better in the summer once we have drafted another prospect.
#knickstape
User avatar
spree#8
 
Joined: June 5, 2006, 12:21 pm

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby NewlyKnicked » January 19, 2018, 12:20 pm

Walker will have a big contract attached to him to reset the team if the hornets ever do this move. We don't have any big ending contracts to put in the balance. He isn't comin here
2017 NYKFP Mock Lottery Competition Champion
User avatar
NewlyKnicked
 
Joined: November 2, 2016, 11:08 am

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby nazrmohamed » January 19, 2018, 1:20 pm

Don Che wrote:I wouldnt give up anything for Kemba

look at the deal that got CP3/PG13/Melo .....now dial that down by 10 since he's never been an all star and never went deep in the playoffs....and I'd offer that.

Knicks do need to make a decision on....playoffs or no playoffs.

Kemba is a guy you get if you want playoffs now




but a part of me has always wanted MKG here....he can't shoot but hes an athlete and hes a dog...plus fits the timeline of Frank/KP..maybe the change of scenery is what he needs


And there's no guarantee he'd just walk in and elevate this team to the playoffs either. We're too far gone. There is really only one decision. Be bad enough for a top five pick or pick at 14 just to say prove something very intangible to your fans. This ridiculous quest for something you'll fall short of is ridiculous.

And just like clockwork, in doing so you get the fans who wanna deplete the team of rebuilding assets to get talent that really doesn't move the needle. Not to mention of anyone believes it'll only take Frank you gotta be kidding yourself. They'll want our pick as well along with another young asset
PHISHER
User avatar
nazrmohamed
 
Joined: December 16, 2004, 8:06 pm
Location: Rockland, Ny

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby Don Che » January 19, 2018, 1:33 pm

trading for Kemba would be the most knicks things to do


losing on purpose is the most philly thing to do


the right thing.....is start Frank and let these guys play as hard as they can...once the dust settles...you get rid of all these centers and join the 21st century
User avatar
Don Che
 
Joined: September 23, 2007, 3:53 pm
Location: Queens

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby cragganmor » January 19, 2018, 3:12 pm

We.need.wings.
User avatar
cragganmor
 
Joined: December 7, 2003, 8:35 pm
Location: New York City

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby Don Che » January 19, 2018, 3:55 pm

Kyle for MKG
User avatar
Don Che
 
Joined: September 23, 2007, 3:53 pm
Location: Queens

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby Koopa Troopa » January 19, 2018, 6:51 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:And just like clockwork, in doing so you get the fans who wanna deplete the team of rebuilding assets to get talent that really doesn't move the needle. Not to mention of anyone believes it'll only take Frank you gotta be kidding yourself. They'll want our pick as well along with another young asset


The dumbest deal I can imagine is Frank, Doug, OQuinn and a first rounder. Kemba's only making 12 million so coming up with a decent deal is impossible. If you sit and look at the Knicks roster for 20 seconds you realize they dont really even have assets to deplete. There is a ton of dead weight here. Its impossible for the Knicks to even think they have a chance of acquiring Kemba.

Also the idea that this team needs wings more than guards I dont agree with. I havent seen a worse PG rotation in the NBA since Howard Eisley was starting for NYK (Funny enough, Eisley is a current coach on the team and the PG's are playing eerily similar to him i.e. 0 penetration 0 shot creation). I also think its silly to think you cant get a star PG and continue the rebuild. KP isnt gonna be 35 next year. He will continue to grow even if you get a star guard. Hell he probably will develop faster. Outside of LeBron and Giannis I dont see any wing player that will truly help KP out. He needs a star PG to get him some easy looks and take the load off him. Imagining that even if you sign Kemba for 5 years, after that 5 years is up KP is only 28 years old. Thats the disconnect I'm having with this. You arent trading Porzingis for a 32 year old star, you are keeping Porzingis right? :?

Plus KP's time is coming. If you still havent addressed the PG situation after next season, KP will walk. Why play with cement boots Frank when theres 20 star PG's that would love to play with KP?
User avatar
Koopa Troopa
 
Joined: June 28, 2003, 9:01 pm
Location: Queens

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby nazrmohamed » January 19, 2018, 8:40 pm

There's enough talent on the Hornets that if Kemba had the ability to make anyone better they would've been better than a perennial 8-6 seed in the East. Stop it. KP needs a better PG, not another scorer.

Well that's actually a lie. He could use another scorer but I just don't understand the obsession with go to pgs with average play making ability. I say a great vet PG would be someone like Rondo who can actually teach Frank something and you can get for a fraction of the price. Hed help everyone develop, you'd probably win some games and would come way cheaper. I'm not saying he's on the table but you could improve your pg situation by merely getting an upgraded Sessions/Jack type of player with waning value but can still play and who can mentor and still keep Frank in our plans.

The other thing folks, the only thing you need to do for KP top wanna stay is be decent by his FA year. This notion that this year; this year right here must be a winning year is a farce.

KP showed up, he and his brother knew Anthony was getting traded. Don't let anyone fool you, they were consulted. And they were told that this team would be rebuilt. In the modern nba that means a sell off, a period of epic loss and the acquisition of top prospects through the draft. And if KP can't understand that then maybe H20 is right. Maybe it's he who should be traded for future lottery picks and it's Frank who will become the senior young prospect on the team. (Senior as in, year one of my future starts with last year's draft. )

But I'm that adamant. I'm not ready to jump the gun. In fact, I could do this for 2 more drafts to be honest.
Last edited by nazrmohamed on January 19, 2018, 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PHISHER
User avatar
nazrmohamed
 
Joined: December 16, 2004, 8:06 pm
Location: Rockland, Ny

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby PistolPete » January 19, 2018, 8:49 pm

Sign Smart in the off-season instead.
Damn it feels good to be a tankster.
User avatar
PistolPete
 
Joined: May 13, 2008, 8:38 pm

Re: Kemba 2019!

Postby big_j_NY » January 19, 2018, 9:09 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:There's enough talent on the Hornets that if Kemba had the ability to make anyone better they would've been better than a perennial 8-6 seed in the East. Stop it. KP needs a better PG, not another scorer.

Well that's actually a lie. He could use another scorer but I just don't understand the obsession with go to pgs with average play making ability. I say a great vet PG would be someone like Rondo who can actually teach Frank something and you can get for a fraction of the price. Hed help everyone develop, you'd probably win some games and would come way cheaper. I'm not saying he's on the table but you could improve your pg situation by merely getting an upgraded Sessions/Jack type of player with waning value but can still play and who can mentor and still keep Frank in our plans.

The other thing folks, the only thing you need to do for KP top wanna stay is be decent by his FA year. This notion that this year; this year right here must be a winning year is a farce.

KP showed up, he and his brother knew Anthony was getting traded. Don't let anyone fool you, they were consulted. And they were told that this team would be rebuilt. In the modern nba that means a sell off, a period of epic loss and the acquisition of top prospects through the draft. And if KP can't understand that then maybe H20 is right. Maybe it's he who should be traded for future lottery picks and it's Frank who will become the senior young prospect on the team. (Senior as in, year one of my future starts with last year's draft. )

But I'm that adamant. I'm not ready to jump the gun. In fact, I could do this for 2 more drafts to be honest.


:clap: :clap: :clap:
#EmbraceTheTank2019

#InPorzingisWeTrust

Hassan Whiteside wrote:I'm just tryin...tryin 2 really get my NBA 2K rating up
User avatar
big_j_NY
 
Joined: December 29, 2005, 10:47 pm
Location: Houston, TX.........Queens, NY born & raised

PreviousNext

Return to New York Knicks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 12 guests