If Justin Jackson can defend the 2....I wouldnt be that mad at that pick. Never really considered it because everyone has been saying hes a 3 but to compete at that position...you need a 6'7+ 230-250 pound athlete....Jackson isnt that but lookin at what he can do.
shoot the 3...shoot medium range...floaters...passes well...contests shots...high IQ....pedigree
at his height he has an advantage against other SG's and can defend either 1 or 3 on a switch...those are questions I have. if so....hes a reach but would help.
I'd still aim for Josh Hart and Semi as i mentioned in other posts but...Justin..ONLY IF HE CAN DEFEND THE 2....would help us..not as flashy as Monk but more substance...more ready than Frank. This is if Dennis is off the board. To me Mitchell and Jackson id consider...there are just so many things Monk hasnt proven he can do yet.
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I'm a huge Kief fan, so don't get me wrong. He just doesn't like to mix it up in the paint. He loves to pick and pop. He has fantastic hands and he makes smart decisions with the basketball. My problem is that his limitations are the exact same as KP's. He's not physically strong enough to guard opposing centers, he's not great on the glass, and he doesn't feed off physical play. He's not the guy who is going to give someone a hard foul. They just wouldn't complement each other as 4/5.n8 the gr8 wrote:^
I think I was the only one that called Kief a goon. I'm basing a big part of that on the playoffs but it's not like I've never watched him before. You've watched more of him though, what do you dislike?
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At this point I think its between Frank or Monk.....who to take?. Monk has an advantage because he has an identity as a player, what I mean is, I know hes going to go out there wanting to score. Hes a gun slinger...can go 2-9 in a stretch and still aim for 20 on you. Theres good and bad to that and we live with that in Melo everyday.
Frank is the epitome of an unknown player and european factor plays in it but really...its because he doesnt log in large minutes for a long amount of time. Its hard to really guage who he is, is he gonna want to drop 20 on you? Does he want to get 10 assists? or neither and hes solely trying to lock you down....he has the tools to do all those things but is it in him mindset.
The great thing about both of them is....they turned a weakness into positive within a year or 2...which is great to see when evaluation work ethic on their craft. Monk wasnt known as a shooter, he was more of a volume guy and just be a pure top shelf athlete....now? you can't discuss Monk without saying how good of a shooter he is. What makes him special is the fact hes a multi dimensional shooter which leads me to believe he can drop buckets in the league from day one. Mid range/spot up/off curls//off the dribble. he can flat outscore from anywhere. The question we gotta ask ourselves is how else can Monk help you win? I dont mind picking a guy that can drop 40 on you, but you need a guy that can help you when hes not scoring...defense or passing is the choice If he an do both than...he a franchise player, 1 of them he can be a starting/all star caliber player....Sadly with his athleticism he could do all of it.
Frank improved his spot shooting very well, he dominated FIBA U18 tournament but thats a small sample size of running the show. He's shot close to 40% from deep this season. Put a spot shooter on a 6'5 Guard with a 6'11 wingspan you have the tools for something special. There are players with similar tools who fail tho and hes not a vertical athlete nor a great first step, only way to compensate is being able to shoot the ball. So with him it depends if he can create off the dribble in this league and can his defense transcend into the NBA.
Frank is the traditional choice...build a team with another scorer if needed and another playmaker...I see him guarding the SG position.
Monk...need a playmaker probably 2 next to him. and have him guard the PG. and let him drop 40.
I wouldn't mind starting Baker/KP/Will with them...the 3 man would vary depending on the choice tho.
Frank is the epitome of an unknown player and european factor plays in it but really...its because he doesnt log in large minutes for a long amount of time. Its hard to really guage who he is, is he gonna want to drop 20 on you? Does he want to get 10 assists? or neither and hes solely trying to lock you down....he has the tools to do all those things but is it in him mindset.
The great thing about both of them is....they turned a weakness into positive within a year or 2...which is great to see when evaluation work ethic on their craft. Monk wasnt known as a shooter, he was more of a volume guy and just be a pure top shelf athlete....now? you can't discuss Monk without saying how good of a shooter he is. What makes him special is the fact hes a multi dimensional shooter which leads me to believe he can drop buckets in the league from day one. Mid range/spot up/off curls//off the dribble. he can flat outscore from anywhere. The question we gotta ask ourselves is how else can Monk help you win? I dont mind picking a guy that can drop 40 on you, but you need a guy that can help you when hes not scoring...defense or passing is the choice If he an do both than...he a franchise player, 1 of them he can be a starting/all star caliber player....Sadly with his athleticism he could do all of it.
Frank improved his spot shooting very well, he dominated FIBA U18 tournament but thats a small sample size of running the show. He's shot close to 40% from deep this season. Put a spot shooter on a 6'5 Guard with a 6'11 wingspan you have the tools for something special. There are players with similar tools who fail tho and hes not a vertical athlete nor a great first step, only way to compensate is being able to shoot the ball. So with him it depends if he can create off the dribble in this league and can his defense transcend into the NBA.
Frank is the traditional choice...build a team with another scorer if needed and another playmaker...I see him guarding the SG position.
Monk...need a playmaker probably 2 next to him. and have him guard the PG. and let him drop 40.
I wouldn't mind starting Baker/KP/Will with them...the 3 man would vary depending on the choice tho.
^^ I agree..
Frank really is the prospect that's gonna take more time. Its hard for me to imagine his ceiling, meanwhile I imagine his floor to be somewhat close to elfrid payton. But what I appreciate most with Frank is his improvement. Few months ago the knock on him was that he cant shoot and is really skinny. Now he finished his season and shot above 40% from 3 and has refined his jumper, also worked on his body a lot, from 160-165 to about 185 now. That level of improvement shows a lot of promise which is why id be ok if we take him ahead of monk but not fox if hes there.
Frank really is the prospect that's gonna take more time. Its hard for me to imagine his ceiling, meanwhile I imagine his floor to be somewhat close to elfrid payton. But what I appreciate most with Frank is his improvement. Few months ago the knock on him was that he cant shoot and is really skinny. Now he finished his season and shot above 40% from 3 and has refined his jumper, also worked on his body a lot, from 160-165 to about 185 now. That level of improvement shows a lot of promise which is why id be ok if we take him ahead of monk but not fox if hes there.
I dont see Fox getting past 5.
Frank may not be a project tho...i think that term is loosely based. My rule of thumb is..if you didnt make the playoffs..an you have a top 10 pick..you start him or play him 25+ mins a night regardless. Even if he sucks and put vets around him to help handle the pressure. Lee/Lance/Sasha are good guys to have around rookies along with Noah and even KP at this point.
KP was a project...comes in and had better numbers in the NBA than he did in the spanish league. We have too many holes in our roster to sit him and hope he works out.
Frank physically looks like an NBA guard...and almost all europeans struggle with the NBA 3 point line but if he can have enough handle to get open looks at the elbow/free throw line on a regular...he could be solid scorer.
Frank may not be a project tho...i think that term is loosely based. My rule of thumb is..if you didnt make the playoffs..an you have a top 10 pick..you start him or play him 25+ mins a night regardless. Even if he sucks and put vets around him to help handle the pressure. Lee/Lance/Sasha are good guys to have around rookies along with Noah and even KP at this point.
KP was a project...comes in and had better numbers in the NBA than he did in the spanish league. We have too many holes in our roster to sit him and hope he works out.
Frank physically looks like an NBA guard...and almost all europeans struggle with the NBA 3 point line but if he can have enough handle to get open looks at the elbow/free throw line on a regular...he could be solid scorer.
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ISIAH_THOMAS
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crazy research. Monk compares mostly to JJ reddick
Regarding Fox always said he will not fall pass sacremtnto
Regarding Fox always said he will not fall pass sacremtnto
Fxck Adam Silver
I think Knicks should consider Justin Jackson. He has the makings of a solid NBA player.
Let's face it, with an 8th pick, it's highly unlikely that they will draft a future star.
He is a safe pick in a sense that you know what you going to get with him. At worst, he will be a solid starter.
I know the team needs point guards, he we also need small forwards. Carmelo is getting older and slowing down. He should either be traded or moved to the 4 next season.
Everyone wants to draft a Chris Paul-type of point guard with an 8th pick, but I don't think either Ntilikina or Monk are at that level. Fox will be great, but he will likely be picked way before the 8th.
Another option is to move down, but is depends on what the team gets.
Point guard situation is a problem, but we do have a couple of second round picks and there is free agency/trade options. I wonder if Knicks can get Mudiay+13th pick from the Nuggest for the 8th.
This is Knicks and we need players who can contribute right away. Ariza had a ton of potential, but the team had no patience in developing him.
Let's face it, with an 8th pick, it's highly unlikely that they will draft a future star.
He is a safe pick in a sense that you know what you going to get with him. At worst, he will be a solid starter.
I know the team needs point guards, he we also need small forwards. Carmelo is getting older and slowing down. He should either be traded or moved to the 4 next season.
Everyone wants to draft a Chris Paul-type of point guard with an 8th pick, but I don't think either Ntilikina or Monk are at that level. Fox will be great, but he will likely be picked way before the 8th.
Another option is to move down, but is depends on what the team gets.
Point guard situation is a problem, but we do have a couple of second round picks and there is free agency/trade options. I wonder if Knicks can get Mudiay+13th pick from the Nuggest for the 8th.
This is Knicks and we need players who can contribute right away. Ariza had a ton of potential, but the team had no patience in developing him.
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ISIAH_THOMAS
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I think it says a LOT that no one's rankings has Frank as one of the top 8 overall players in the draft. 2 years from now, the triangle will be gone and our 2017 pick will still be here. Of DSJ, Isaac, and Monk, I've got Frank as my last choice.
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The pure fact that Phil is insistent on the triangle limits our guard options. Someone like Dennis Smith would be great in a pick and roll offense, but not the triangle. I can see why Phil might want Ntilikina, due to him being a tall guard, which he historically favored, I just don't see him excelling in this system either. You don't need a star point guard to run the triangle, and you can get someone like a young Derek Fisher in the second round. This is why I think Justin Jackson would be a safer pick.
justin jackson is not 8th pick material.
If we end up trading down to 13, sure. But he's not a go-to guy, he's offensively useless when his shot isn't falling. He's a good defender, but I think you can do better in this draft at 8 than "good defender"
If we end up trading down to 13, sure. But he's not a go-to guy, he's offensively useless when his shot isn't falling. He's a good defender, but I think you can do better in this draft at 8 than "good defender"
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Agree..H20Knick wrote:I think it says a LOT that no one's rankings has Frank as one of the top 8 overall players in the draft. 2 years from now, the triangle will be gone and our 2017 pick will still be here. Of DSJ, Isaac, and Monk, I've got Frank as my last choice.
Also, because we found gold with Kp doesn't mean we will do it again with someone like Frank..
Why not?..Muzhik1 wrote:The pure fact that Phil is insistent on the triangle limits our guard options. Someone like Dennis Smith would be great in a pick and roll offense, but not the triangle. I can see why Phil might want Ntilikina, due to him being a tall guard, which he historically favored, I just don't see him excelling in this system either. You don't need a star point guard to run the triangle, and you can get someone like a young Derek Fisher in the second round. This is why I think Justin Jackson would be a safer pick.
He can get in the paint for sure.. And he CAN pass.. He avg 18.1 points per game, 6.2 assists per game, 4.6 rebounds per game, and 1.9 steals
We need to stop looking for "safe" picks.. Let those for the second round..
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n8 the gr8
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I'd love to see DSJ and Frank play 1 on 1. If I were their agents I wouldn't even be against it.
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big_j_NY
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THISH20Knick wrote:justin jackson is not 8th pick material.
If we end up trading down to 13, sure. But he's not a go-to guy, he's offensively useless when his shot isn't falling. He's a good defender, but I think you can do better in this draft at 8 than "good defender"
People need to quit thinking of the 8th pick as "just another player" to add to the roster. We're acquiring someone that will possibly the core foundation for our potential future, we can't just keep using it on "the next role player" just 'CUZ TRIANGLE.
That bullshit mindset is what caused Walsh to draft Jordan Hill over 4+ starting PG prospects in the 2009 Draft.
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Rusty La Rue
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Yeah... this is a deep draft... and if I analyze the different mocks around the web... it seems at least 8 man deep with the same 8 players being selected in most mocks just in a different order. So I believe we will get a very good player even if we stay at the 8th spot. So any trade where we move up should never include KP because there will be a solid player available for us to take even at 8...big_j_NY wrote:
People need to quit thinking of the 8th pick as "just another player" to add to the roster. We're acquiring someone that will possibly the core foundation for our potential future, we can't just keep using it on "the next role player" just 'CUZ TRIANGLE.
That bullshit mindset is what caused Walsh to draft Jordan Hill over 4+ starting PG prospects in the 2009 Draft.
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"Everybody gets excited about youth except the coach, because he knows youth means mistakes, mistakes mean losses, losses means you're fired."
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in my mind...im aiming to draft the kobe/jordan/pippen of this roster...im not aiming for Derek Fisher.
top 10 picks ..sometimes top 15 is where you can find a guy that carries you for a decade. You dont take it lightly and whoever you take...you make the roster to help propell that player.
Similar to what we did for Kp...we started him but had Robin next to him and Kyle on the bench eve with Jose who makes a stable situation for him to come in and succeed.
We gotta do the same for this next pick AND Kp.
top 10 picks ..sometimes top 15 is where you can find a guy that carries you for a decade. You dont take it lightly and whoever you take...you make the roster to help propell that player.
Similar to what we did for Kp...we started him but had Robin next to him and Kyle on the bench eve with Jose who makes a stable situation for him to come in and succeed.
We gotta do the same for this next pick AND Kp.
So with that said, Don... Are you still on Frank or are you coming around to Monk?Don Che wrote:in my mind...im aiming to draft the kobe/jordan/pippen of this roster...im not aiming for Derek Fisher.
top 10 picks ..sometimes top 15 is where you can find a guy that carries you for a decade. You dont take it lightly and whoever you take...you make the roster to help propell that player.
Similar to what we did for Kp...we started him but had Robin next to him and Kyle on the bench eve with Jose who makes a stable situation for him to come in and succeed.
We gotta do the same for this next pick AND Kp.
In Thibs we trust.
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Ill offer my 2.5 cents...
If we dont trade for a PG,i.e Rubio,I would go after Monk..He can shoot,he athletic as can be,and if he has any Bball IQ,he can fir in the triangle well at the PG..
I have to imagine his handle is as good as Bakers
If we dont trade for a PG,i.e Rubio,I would go after Monk..He can shoot,he athletic as can be,and if he has any Bball IQ,he can fir in the triangle well at the PG..
I have to imagine his handle is as good as Bakers
great question H20 im not sure if it was this thread or another but i gave my perspective on Frank and Monk and I do feel if Philly doesnt take Monk at 3....we are picking between Monk and Frank.
I'm just not sure man, if I take Monk..Im basically banking him on being a Iverson type scorer...and sadly if you look at Iverson/Curry/Monk freshman year stats...they are THAT far off from one another....along with the fact Monk is a far better vertical athlete than Curry and barely a level above AI.
but the biggest concern...is IQ and nasty to his game..Curry and AI are exceptional basketball minds and AI has more heart than 90% of the players ive seen....Curry is a flat out assassin.
Frank to me is a SG and could be a really good one but its hard to really tell because of the competition.
Im gonna wait till personal workouts/interviews with both of them to get a better feel.
But i went into March really not liking Monk at all....i do like his game now a bit more.
and just to annoy Tao...Baker is 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan...dont be surprised Baker starts next to Frank or Monk lol Baker can defend either guard spot.
I'm just not sure man, if I take Monk..Im basically banking him on being a Iverson type scorer...and sadly if you look at Iverson/Curry/Monk freshman year stats...they are THAT far off from one another....along with the fact Monk is a far better vertical athlete than Curry and barely a level above AI.
but the biggest concern...is IQ and nasty to his game..Curry and AI are exceptional basketball minds and AI has more heart than 90% of the players ive seen....Curry is a flat out assassin.
Frank to me is a SG and could be a really good one but its hard to really tell because of the competition.
Im gonna wait till personal workouts/interviews with both of them to get a better feel.
But i went into March really not liking Monk at all....i do like his game now a bit more.
and just to annoy Tao...Baker is 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan...dont be surprised Baker starts next to Frank or Monk lol Baker can defend either guard spot.