Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

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Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby H20Knick » April 26, 2017, 1:46 pm

Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks for this NBA team
http://www.nydailynews.com/authors?author=Chuck-Modiano

51-32.

[b]That's the Clippers' record the last three years with Blake Griffin out of the lineup.


Chris Paul missed 13 of those same games. In the 70 games Paul played without Blake, the Clippers' record was 47-23, good for a projected 55-win season.

Griffin is just not that valuable to the Clippers, but it's not really his fault. His inside talent and muscle is highly duplicative alongside DeAndre Jordan, whose game tends to flourish in his absence.

Carmelo Anthony now at a crossroads professionally and personally
Then there is this other record.

9-51.

That's the Knicks' record during the 60 games Carmelo Anthony was not in the lineup over the last three years, known as the Phil Jackson Era.[/b]

Without Melo, Phil's Knicks would be projected to win a whopping 12 games over a full season — a 15% winning percentage which would end up as ninth-worst in NBA history.

3 ways Carmelo Anthony divorce from Knicks can play out
Phil should remember that — and this too:

Teammates Matter.

Having the brilliant Chris Paul and a rebounding machine like DeAndre Jordan by your side really matters.

Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony share the same NBA blues — they have never played with each other, let alone with a quality substitute.

The only time Anthony was ever gifted a top point guard he led his Nuggets to the Western Conference Finals. That point guard was Chauncey Billups.

Sadly, Paul has never even made it that far. The biggest reason? His career has lacked a highly skilled frontline scorer at or even near Melo's level. In a pick-and-roll league, separating the Pauls from the Anthonys is a hoops tragedy.


Griffin is not the only NBA All-Star forward to recently miss a season's worth of games.


In the last three years, Griffin, Golden State's Kevin Durant and Indiana's Paul George all missed 83-85 games. Such a large sample size provides a rarity of great information that far surpasses misleading "plus/minus" stats. Have a look:

Winning Percentages Without their All-Star Forward

61% - Blake Griffin's Teammates (51-32)

54% - Kevin Durant's Teammates (46-39)

44% - Paul George's Teammates (37-47)

15% - Anthony's Teammates (9-51)

And Paul George is frustrated with his supporting cast? Just stop.


No other great player in the NBA has been saddled with worse working conditions than Carmelo has — and it's not even close.

The Clippers are nearly as good without Blake. Durant's old Thunder team is still a playoff squad, and his new one won 73 games without him a year ago.

And then there is the great Anthony Davis — the NBA's poster child for bad teammate luck.

In his first five seasons, the former No. 1 pick made the playoffs just once (a sweep), and never surpassed 34 wins in any other season. In the 75 games Davis has missed, here is how his teammates performed:

32% - Anthony Davis Teammates (24-51)

15% - Carmelo's Teammates (9-51)

Yes, Carmelo even has it twice as bad as AD.


Despite the rough start, however, Davis has been cast as a sympathetic NBA figure. Here are some of the article titles about him recently.

- Washington Post: "Anthony Davis is a historically good player on a historically bad team"

- FiveThirtyEight: "Anthony Davis Has Been Great. So Why Are The Pelicans So Bad?"

- SB Nation: "The Pelicans have Anthony Davis, yet they stink. Here's why"

Davis's misfortune has been met with almost universal sorrow, analysis, and stat-splaining away the tragic waste of his immense young talent.

And that's a good thing — because it is all so true.

But what about 9 and 51?

Where are all the violins for Carmelo?

When projected to 82 games, the Pelicans with Davis (146-189) improve 10 games, going from 26 to 36 wins, while Phil's Knicks with Melo (71-115) jump from 12 wins to 31.

Melo improves Phil's Knicks by 19 games. How many more should we expect?



The Melo-less Knicks are an incredible indictment of Phil's arrogant belief that the triangle offense was more responsible for his 11 coaching titles than players named Michael, Scottie, Shaq and Kobe.

When all five Knick starters were on the floor this past year (and departed from the triangle offense), the Knicks were actually not that terrible (13-15). Considering Derrick Rose missed most of the preseason and Joakim Noah was chronically hobbled and immobile (which may never change), that's the good news.

The bad news is all of Phil's slights, slings and arrows that he has lobbed at Anthony to deflect from his own incompetence. Like Phil, Melo's many critics attending Twitter University have multiple PhD's in Hoops Nitpicking.

Critics will say Melo is a one-dimensional player, but it's just not true, nor does it explain how he led the Knicks in scoring, rebounding, and assists in 2015-2016.

They say that he never passes, but those 4.2 assists per game were also fifth-best in the league for all non-guards.

They obsess about how many seconds Melo holds the ball, but ignore those 51 losses in 60 games where he failed to touch it at all.

They believe "ball-stopping" is a four-letter word, and prioritize style and flow over points and wins.

They explain how he is not LeBron, but who the hell is?

Finally, they forget that LeBron, and even Michael Jordan, took their unfair share of heat before they upgraded their dance partners.

Sports media and fans have never been too good at judging great talent with lesser teammates. So instead of examining the other Knicks, his teammates' flaws becomes Melo's own.


Unlike Phil, Melo's college coach embraced his game all the way to a National Championship.

"He gets criticized for what he does, and that's being an offensive machine," said Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim. "I'm tired of reading it. He doesn't play like LeBron James. He can pass, but he's a scorer. He's an offensive force. That's what he does."

In the NBA, there has been too little study of Carmelo's teammates, and this goes back to Denver — where upon arrival as a 19-year-old rookie in 2003, Anthony improved the Nuggets from 17 to 43 wins overnight. That's 26 extra wins. Melo did that.

Melo's best two Nugget years came with a great point guard. "We were two plays away from [beating the Lakers] and winning the West," says Billups of the 2009 postseason, "and we could've easily beaten Orlando. That's how close we were to winning it in Denver."


In "Why Carmelo Anthony Is the Ultimate Team Player," Nate Silver studied 16 Nugget teammates who played at least 2,000 minutes with Melo, and found that all but two posted a higher true shooting percentage playing with Anthony than without him.

Carmelo makes his teammates better. This is not an opinion; it's a statistical fact. Silver explains:

"Because he is able to score from anywhere in the court, Anthony draws attention and defenders away from his teammates, sometimes leaving them with wide-open shots. … These effects produce a profound increase in the efficiency of Anthony's supporting cast when he is on the floor."


Kristaps Porzingis, the undisputed future King of the Knicks, agrees. "I think it would make life harder for me on the court (if Anthony was traded)," Porzingis told the Daily News. "He makes stuff easier for me."

Porzingis is 2-12 in games he started without Anthony.


In the NBA, Mike Woodson has been the only Knicks coach who fully embraced Carmelo's skill set over predesigned coaching schemes. Woodson took over an 18-24 Knicks team, immediately built on Melo's strengths, and finished 18-6 with the same exact team (note: it's absurd Woodson has not been rehired as a head coach).

Woodson then won 54 games the following season with J.R. Smith as Carmelo's No. 2 scorer, Tyson Chandler's strong rebounding, and a sharing backcourt of Raymond Felton and an aged Jason Kidd. Chandler, J.R., and Iman Shumpert were also strong defenders who Phil quickly traded away for a bag of chips.

Up until the disastrous trade for Andrea Bargnani, Woodson's Knicks had the right formula but not enough title talent. Jackson didn't just ship off the talent — he destroyed the formula.

Woodson's 54-win Knicks surrounded Melo with defense, a top rebounder, and passing guards. Phil's Knicks abandoned defense and rebounding, and suddenly, Sasha Vujacic was starting 25 games, a new career high.

A good question to ask is: If Carmelo can win 54 games with the Knicks and with J.R. Smith and Tyson Chandler as his next best players, what might he do with Chris Paul creating easy buckets, and a rebounding force like DeAndre Jordan?

If there was ever a team tailor-made for Melo's strengths, and vice versa, it's the Clippers. Woodson is their assistant coach, Jordan is a bigger, better version of Chandler, and Chris Paul and Melo complete each other.


Take it from Chauncey: "You got to have a really strong point guard with (Carmelo) that knows how to get him the ball, when to get him the ball and when not to get it to him. He's at his best playing like that.”

Which is precisely why Carmelo must be let out of Phil's triangular prison, and join Chris Paul (and if not Paul, then John Wall).

If Clippers management makes the decision to re-sign Paul and truly "go for it," it should consider going all in on a Griffin-for-Anthony swap with a Kyle O'Quinn throw-in to help make up for lost age and rebounds. Griffin's strong inside game is being wasted alongside Jordan but would benefit Porzingis.

The Clippers would immediately join top-four NBA status with a legitimate two-year shot at a title. If a "two-year shot" seems too slim, please kindly review the Clippers' first 33 years of existence.

The Nuggets and Knicks won 17 and 29 games the year before Carmelo arrived, so joining the Clippers would be like Durant joining a team that went 96-0, playoffs included.

If Durant felt compelled to join a front-runner, perhaps he closely studied the lack of appreciation given to his Olympic teammate Carmelo.

Durant knows that teammates matter.

If you are still unsure about this, just remember one stat: 9-51.
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby taowave » April 26, 2017, 7:31 pm

Excellent article ..

I hope Melo goes to the Clips and Mr Geometry leads us to the number one pick next year.
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby noypi » April 26, 2017, 7:56 pm

"I like how they move the ball without Melo on the floor."

Translation: They keep moving the ball because nobody wants take the shot because they all suck and don't have the balls to take the media bashing that will come afterwards for what they call "ball-hogging."

Seriously, I just want Melo to have all-star caliber teammates for once. Question is where to trade him which make him waive his NTC.
“I’m still chasing a championship, I’m just chasing it here in New York,’’ Anthony said. “I’ve come to peace with that. I’m doing it in my own way on my own time.”

http://nypost.com/2015/10/27/greatest-c ... -with-nyc/
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby Mr3037 » April 26, 2017, 8:04 pm

So what would be looking to do....Trade Melo for Griffin & something?
Melo + KOQ for Griffin + Johnson & Speights works.

I suppose LAC might consider it if they fail to get to the finals again which they will.
Griffin having a year less than Melo works for us & we get to see if him and KP can work.

Any deal that see's Melo leave I would prefer to see some draft picks coming back our way.
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby H20Knick » April 26, 2017, 8:24 pm

Id want LAC's 2020 1st rounder. Once CP3 and Melo are gone they're going to be awful. I'll take Austin Rivers too please. And Brice Johnson
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby noypi » April 26, 2017, 8:27 pm

What do you guys think of Melo and Kyle for Horford and the Nets 2017 pick? Would you do it and would the Celtics do it? I don't know Celtics fans sentiment on Horford but his numbers seem underwhelming. That Nets pick could really jump start our rebuild.
“I’m still chasing a championship, I’m just chasing it here in New York,’’ Anthony said. “I’ve come to peace with that. I’m doing it in my own way on my own time.”

http://nypost.com/2015/10/27/greatest-c ... -with-nyc/
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby noypi » April 26, 2017, 8:28 pm

H20Knick wrote:Id want LAC's 2020 1st rounder. Once CP3 and Melo are gone they're going to be awful. I'll take Austin Rivers too please. And Brice Johnson


Yeah they gonna suck for sure and that pick seems more appealing now that I think about it.
“I’m still chasing a championship, I’m just chasing it here in New York,’’ Anthony said. “I’ve come to peace with that. I’m doing it in my own way on my own time.”

http://nypost.com/2015/10/27/greatest-c ... -with-nyc/
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby big_j_NY » April 26, 2017, 9:09 pm

H20Knick wrote:Id want LAC's 2020 1st rounder. Once CP3 and Melo are gone they're going to be The True Clippers again. I'll take Austin Rivers too please. And Brice Johnson


Fixed.........we all know that franchise is cursed, CP3 just put the Clippers curse on vacation for awhile :laugh:
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby Mr3037 » April 26, 2017, 9:17 pm

noypi wrote:What do you guys think of Melo and Kyle for Horford and the Nets 2017 pick? Would you do it and would the Celtics do it? I don't know Celtics fans sentiment on Horford but his numbers seem underwhelming. That Nets pick could really jump start our rebuild.


I'd probably do it but down Celtics would.

Although getting dumped from the playoffs MAY convince them they need another star.

Any trade that gets us a pick is more than fine with me.......although a 2020 pick just seems so far away lol
Oh and I doubt that LAC lets A.Rivers go before his old man
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby lxn_ » April 26, 2017, 10:13 pm

^^This.. must get a pick in return.

noypi wrote:What do you guys think of Melo and Kyle for Horford and the Nets 2017 pick? Would you do it and would the Celtics do it? I don't know Celtics fans sentiment on Horford but his numbers seem underwhelming. That Nets pick could really jump start our rebuild.


If the celtics lose soon this might be likely. But the tough part here is dealing with fkin danny ainge. Here are some guys he couldve traded for with the assets he has during the deadline.
Jimmy Butler,Paul George, Demarcus Cousins, Serge Ibaka, Jusuf Nurkic, Nerlens Noel. Everyone knows they need a big who can REBOUND and defend. Nurkic, Ibaka,Cousins(whos like best friends with IT) all were acquired for pretty much very cheap deals and still he didnt pull the trigger. Its getting so bad that even celtics fans are starting to hate him for his greed on assets.
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby Mr3037 » April 26, 2017, 10:21 pm

It looked like greed but now he looks like the smartest GM in the game.
He's got the top team in the EC, which may have got lucky this year but they have the #1 pick and plenty of cap room. They are in a great position to contend for years to come if they dont mess it up.

Like lxn pointed out he passed on younger players with more favorable contracts.....so maybe convincing Boston to take Melo might be a tough sell BUT realistically the Cavs & LAC seem like viable options.

Not sure about Washington, OKC or even ATL.

IF Phil makes it clear we are going into rebuild mode, Melo will waive the NTC, I just hope we dont fuk up the trade once it does happen
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby Brooklyn » April 26, 2017, 10:36 pm

The problem is that EVERYONE knows that we want to trade Melo.

In fact, the only surprise right now would be if we DON'T try to trade Melo so you can expect the lowball offers to come rolling in.

Two years ago, I'd have some sort of Zen mind trickery excuse in favor of our GM but the reality is that I don't and until Phil proves otherwise.....the only thing he's been able to achieve is to overhaul the roster with only KP to show for it. This summer it must be star + young talent (Draft) or young talent + more picks.
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby Mr3037 » April 26, 2017, 10:45 pm

I'm not fussed about us bringing in a star......I'd be more than happy to tank for another season, convince KP that come 2018 we'll be ready to compete as we'll have 3 top 10 picks on our roster + plenty of cap space.

Brooklyn is right though in that its clear we will wanna trade Melo BUT I think there are going to be teams that understand/beleive he could be the final piece to their puzzle and maybe not be willing to overpay but be willing to come to a fair deal with us.
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby Rusty La Rue » April 27, 2017, 6:13 am

It doesn't matter if everybody knows we want trade Melo. Even if Phil had kept his mouth shut to the public every GM would have known anyways as soon as we tried to mention his name in possible trades. If they didn't already know. What we need to get decent value for Melo is that multiple teams become interested in his services. I would be great if Celtics, Wizards & Clippers all have interest... then we should be able to get something useful out of the deal.
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby shakespeare » April 27, 2017, 7:46 am

Article is misleading for at least 2 reasons:

1) With Melo, New York still is a lottery team
2) Without Melo on the team, there's like $25 million to be spent on player(s) that may lead to a record better than 9-51
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby Don Che » April 27, 2017, 9:07 am

I'm at a point that I want Melo gone BUT if him and KP want to make this work so much.....

than KP has to get to a 250-255 range this offseason and play the 5. Melo the 4 and find a 3 man that can defend either the 3/4(more 3) and go that rout. trade Kyle for a pick or young 3 man

does anyone have analytics on KP playing the 5? issue is tho we always had a ton of goons on the roster he really didnt play the 5 much this year but im curious...is KP analytically better at the 5?

I know for certain Melo is better at the 4 both analytically/watching the game
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby taowave » April 27, 2017, 9:20 am

If by some miracle Melo stays on, he has to play the 4 and we need a real point guard who can run the show.No question we need a defender at the 3.

With Noah on board for 3 more years,I would entertain moving Willie for a top 10 pick. Not likely,and it could possibly piss off KP even more,but I am not sure a Willie/KP front line can work on D.

On a side note,it amazes me how bad a PG Derrick Rose is.

Don Che wrote:I'm at a point that I want Melo gone BUT if him and KP want to make this work so much.....

than KP has to get to a 250-255 range this offseason and play the 5. Melo the 4 and find a 3 man that can defend either the 3/4(more 3) and go that rout. trade Kyle for a pick or young 3 man

does anyone have analytics on KP playing the 5? issue is tho we always had a ton of goons on the roster he really didnt play the 5 much this year but im curious...is KP analytically better at the 5?

I know for certain Melo is better at the 4 both analytically/watching the game
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby Don Che » April 27, 2017, 10:00 am

ppl get enamored with this PG stuff....we need 2 playmakers...KP nor Melo are playmakers so that leaves the 3/2/1 spots to get 2 guys who can create offense for others.

thats the way all great teams work actually. Golden State has 4..i repeat 4 guys who can get 5-7 assists any given night. Curry/KD/Iggy/Dray...not including Klay who is a decent passer in his own right along with Shaun Livingston.

Cavs have Lebron who...is the best non PG passer of all time and Kyrie...even Love can pass it a bit.

Regardless if Melo stays or not....I want 2-3 playmakers added to this roster...in my mind Baker is the only one we have which is flat out miserable.

Even looking at the Wiz/Clippers and guys in that bubble...Wall and CP3 need other playmakers with them it makes it so much harder to contain an offense when a guy is all over the floor...its easy to plan a defensive attack when your 1 playmaker is always at the top the key..i remember Pippen guarding Magic years back..it totally changed everything once you stop the funnel of an offense at the top.

This by no means a bash of your post Tao because I agree..I just think we need guys who can pass in multiple positions to truly maximize 3 things...Melo/KP and our triangle offense better yet any offense
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby taowave » April 27, 2017, 11:10 am

I was referring to our needs if somehow Melo stays a Knick...

He seems to do his best with a Billups/Kidd running the show..

Interesting how Harden has adapted to Mike D and Melo/Kobe couldnt stand him.

You think Phil moves Melo regardless of what he gets back(no long term deals)??



Don Che wrote:ppl get enamored with this PG stuff....we need 2 playmakers...KP nor Melo are playmakers so that leaves the 3/2/1 spots to get 2 guys who can create offense for others.

thats the way all great teams work actually. Golden State has 4..i repeat 4 guys who can get 5-7 assists any given night. Curry/KD/Iggy/Dray...not including Klay who is a decent passer in his own right along with Shaun Livingston.

Cavs have Lebron who...is the best non PG passer of all time and Kyrie...even Love can pass it a bit.

Regardless if Melo stays or not....I want 2-3 playmakers added to this roster...in my mind Baker is the only one we have which is flat out miserable.

Even looking at the Wiz/Clippers and guys in that bubble...Wall and CP3 need other playmakers with them it makes it so much harder to contain an offense when a guy is all over the floor...its easy to plan a defensive attack when your 1 playmaker is always at the top the key..i remember Pippen guarding Magic years back..it totally changed everything once you stop the funnel of an offense at the top.

This by no means a bash of your post Tao because I agree..I just think we need guys who can pass in multiple positions to truly maximize 3 things...Melo/KP and our triangle offense better yet any offense
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Re: Article - "Why Carmelo Anthony must leave Knicks..."

Postby Don Che » April 27, 2017, 11:16 am

We need playmakers across the board to really see KP go to another level. Big guys need facilitators..Even Dirk whos the apex of it all had really solid facilitators throughout his career

Harden is more of a passer than Kobe/Melo would ever be.

Prime Kobe at the top of the key, pick and rolls all day wouldnt do much other than rack up points for him.

Kobe was leaps and bounds better than Harden is right now but Hardens skill set is perfect for SSOL.

Not for nothing...i think Melo and Phil still have to talk and iron things out...and I think Melo would rather lose here than win somewhere else.

so if Phil doesnt get what he wants..Melo stays

but i do think them 2, Jeff and KP all gotta talk and be on the same page. because a lot has to be addressed.
Last edited by Don Che on April 27, 2017, 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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