Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby nazrmohamed » April 21, 2017, 5:44 pm

Don Che wrote:Marburg was already toxic at that point... he tried to make Melo a passer but Melo didn't pass...and neither of them are Harden.

Mike was "eh" in my book but don't sit and front like we gave him the guys he needs to win.

We didnt.

Same way we aren't now. Only coach that ever got what he wanted here was woodson because him and grunnie were best of pals.

Fix the Jackson and Jeff relationship and you'll see a change here


No Woodson didn't. He inherited a team Dantoni could do nothing with, stfu and just went to work preaching accountability and a "nobody is gonna feel sorry for us so I won't" attitude.....players responded.

The following year we added the oldest and most injured collection of players ever assembled. Mightve crippled most teams. And it was with that team he won 54 games. In his third year management felt the answer to the Pacers was Andrea Bargnani and the entire thing fell apart.

Dantonis teams sucked for two yrs before Melo got here, and then pretty much sucked when Melo got here, only making the playoffs because Melo willed it. Im not giving Dantoni any credit. He didn't really get Harden to adapt not did he adapt himself, all he's done is continue his own tradition where the only prolific player allowed is at PG and that's why he's at PG. If Harden did not have the capacity to play PG then Dantoni wouldn't have taken the job or taken it and been fucked. 20 yrs from now if you watch a Dantoni team, his pg would be the best player surrounded by catch and shoot players exclusively.

Dantoni probably wouldve taken our entire second unit, yes Jennings included, and had them winning 50 games though. He's that wierd. Its all fun and gun with him.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby gradyandrew » April 21, 2017, 7:19 pm

Don Che wrote:Via dailyKnicks.com

Anthony finished the 2016-17 regular season at No. 418 in the NBA in Defensive Real Plus-Minus. It’s also worth noting that the Knicks allowed 111.1 points per 100 possessions with the 10-time All-Star on the floor.

Of the players who were on the court for at least 1,000 minutes in 2016-17, no player on the Knicks had a worse defensive rating than Anthony.

By comparison, the Knicks had a team-best defensive rating of 104.7 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the bench. That’s a difference of 6.4 points per 100 possessions, as well as a telling sign of his influence on the defensive end of the floor.

This is all we have been saying for a while

Can't win without defense...Phil may have been wrong on how he did it....doesn't mean he's actually wrong tho


Don't believe the noise. Every lineup where Melo was slotted at the 4, the Knicks were a net positive. Stephen Curry can't guard centers, Deandre can'tguardthe 3, and Melo can't guard wings.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby gradyandrew » April 21, 2017, 7:21 pm

The issue isn't "why is melos defense so bad" it's "why did the coaching staff insist on playing him out of position". My guess is because he doesn't look like a triangle power forward.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby big_j_NY » April 21, 2017, 8:01 pm

gradyandrew wrote:The issue isn't "why is melos defense so bad" it's "why did the coaching staff insist on playing him out of position". My guess is because he doesn't look like a triangle power forward.


Well the other elephant in the room as for why Carmelo didn't play much power forward these past 2 years, dare I say it...........Carmelo himself.

Carmelo has actually expressed in some interviews in the past that he considers himself a wing, considers himself a small forward. He understood the advantages he had at the 4, but he passionately argued that he wanted to stay a small forward for a majority of his career.

If anything, stubborn Phil may have been on to something in terms of keeping Carmelo off the PF spot...........if Melo himself didn't want to be a long-term 4.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby nazrmohamed » April 21, 2017, 9:00 pm

Can't say that aint true. For a guy who knows he's better at the 4 than the 3, he sure does hate the position. Then we'll trade him to Cleveland and he'll willingly play it. So in any case, it's time to move on. Im a big Melo fan but cmon, even you're fans want you to do better elsewhere. Go ahead and leave this place alone. Perhaps both parties can rebuild thier image and get back on track
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby Don Che » April 22, 2017, 8:26 am

I understand the woodson love but that wasn't a path to sustained success. Woodson is a soldier...not a general

Melo defends the 4 better......but. KP plays that position so he has to go period
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby taowave » April 22, 2017, 10:39 am

Don,why do you say Woodson wasn't a path to sustained success as opposed to the front office?

Are you suggesting the coach is equally or more important than the GM/owner and quite possibly the talent?

I put the talent and GM slightly above the coach.
The talent and GM are kind of linked..
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby cragganmor » April 22, 2017, 2:31 pm

woody found a formula that worked for a while, but unfortunately the expiration date came before the nba finals.

i think the vet presence that was assembled kept a lot of guys and their bs in check; melo, chandler and jr all found a way to focus on the game plan, everyone else fell in line. what jackass would argue with kidd, camby, sheed or kt? all of that evaporated the following year, the effort and pride were terrible, guys had their own agenda. the vet leadership was all gone.

this past season, our problem was that we had talent, but they didn't fit together well and the floor leadership was pretty low. it's always difficult, regardless of the sport when your best player is not a leader; our 2 best players were not natural leaders. i think phil wanted noah to be that guy but he just could not stay healthy nor consistent. what i did like from our lineups late in the season was that the backcourt players took charge and did a great job; lee, baker, justin and even sasha all stepped up their consistency and intensity. we can build on that.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby Geolink » April 22, 2017, 6:18 pm

This team's defense was worse than any D'Antoni Knicks team I can remember, that's for damn sure.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby H20Knick » April 22, 2017, 6:47 pm

cragganmor wrote:woody found a formula that worked for a while, but unfortunately the expiration date came before the nba finals.

i think the vet presence that was assembled kept a lot of guys and their bs in check; melo, chandler and jr all found a way to focus on the game plan, everyone else fell in line. what jackass would argue with kidd, camby, sheed or kt? all of that evaporated the following year, the effort and pride were terrible, guys had their own agenda. the vet leadership was all gone.

this past season, our problem was that we had talent, but they didn't fit together well and the floor leadership was pretty low. it's always difficult, regardless of the sport when your best player is not a leader; our 2 best players were not natural leaders. i think phil wanted noah to be that guy but he just could not stay healthy nor consistent. what i did like from our lineups late in the season was that the backcourt players took charge and did a great job; lee, baker, justin and even sasha all stepped up their consistency and intensity. we can build on that.


Well, here's a thought. 1st of all, we went 18-6 with Woodson keeping guys in line in the absence of Kidd, Camby, Sheed, or KT after D'antoni "resigned"

2nd, everyone sits here and says the Knicks were only good with Melo at the 4. I agree and I've said this since 2012. What was so good about 12-13? Melo was at the 4 and Amare was only on the court for 17% of the season because he was always hurt. What happened in 13-14? Not only did Amare's minutes go to 37%, we brought in fucking Andrea Bargnani to take another 32%. So back to the 3 spot you go, Melo. And we lose again. Yeah, KMart was unhappy and that hurt chemistry... of course he was unhappy, he went from getting minutes to Amare AND Bargnani getting minutes. Tyson was unhappy and that hurt chemistry... of course he was unhappy, he wasn't far removed from a title and now his team was losing and nobody is playing D. Well, no shit sherlock, of course no one is playing D. Melo is back at the 3 spot, and our 4 spot is being defended by Amare and Bargnani who probably couldn't guard Mike Sweetney if Sweets had just eaten 8 big macs and a baconator.

The 2014 team's failures had way less to do with veterans leaving than it did the return of Amare at the 4 and Andrea Bargnani being on the team. And even as awful as everyone wants to make out Woodson's last team to be, they still won more games than any of the shit teams Phil Jackson and his minor league coaches have put on the floor
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby DrJ6 » April 23, 2017, 4:00 am

H20Knick wrote:And even as awful as everyone wants to make out Woodson's last team to be, they still won more games than any of the shit teams Phil Jackson and his minor league coaches have put on the floor

Well said. As painful as it is...
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby bobhait » April 23, 2017, 12:15 pm

can we get back to the main point - Phil's not taken the blame even once for anything that's been wrong with the Knicks since he came here, and I think he's blamed Melo on quite a few occasions already. we expecting this bullshit artist to lead us where, exactly?
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby taowave » April 23, 2017, 2:15 pm

He took the job for the money,and now it's about proving he's right.

When you are on your 4th coach in 3 years,the problems go beyond the players.

bobhait wrote:can we get back to the main point - Phil's not taken the blame even once for anything that's been wrong with the Knicks since he came here, and I think he's blamed Melo on quite a few occasions already. we expecting this bullshit artist to lead us where, exactly?
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby Geolink » April 23, 2017, 2:27 pm

Hard to believe 2014 he's been the President. Those years have gone by in a blur.

2014 and some of 2015 I barely watched the Knicks.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby gradyandrew » April 23, 2017, 8:13 pm

bobhait wrote:can we get back to the main point - Phil's not taken the blame even once for anything that's been wrong with the Knicks since he came here, and I think he's blamed Melo on quite a few occasions already. we expecting this bullshit artist to lead us where, exactly?


Like I said before, Fisher never gets into it with Matt Barnes, he doesn't get fired, Phil doesn't trade for Rose and sign Noah. So really, if there's anyone to blame it's barnes's kids for calling their dad.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby maxmet » April 25, 2017, 5:25 pm

trying to find a deal, any deal, that sends Melo away and works in RealGM

Knicks send Melo to the Bulls - also send some draft picks to Bulls

Bulls send Rondo and Mrotic to Knicks and send Butler to Celtics

Celtics send Zeller, Crowder to Bulls and Jaylen Brown to Knicks - Celtics send a nice draft pick to Bulls - not #1 pick

Celtics add superstar

Knicks get rid of Melo without taking on a bad long term deal, get some guys who can help

Bulls get Melo cause it would be fun, add some players who can play and some picks

Why would melo say yes? maybe he likes Chicago.....

okay, hopeless, just trying
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby Geolink » April 26, 2017, 11:41 am

I would rather let Melo rot on the bench for the next year or two than to trade any picks. Getting Carmelo was bad enough trading away basically our future, getting him out damn sure shouldn't.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby H20Knick » April 26, 2017, 12:40 pm

maxmet wrote:trying to find a deal, any deal, that sends Melo away and works in RealGM

Knicks send Melo to the Bulls - also send some draft picks to Bulls

Bulls send Rondo and Mrotic to Knicks and send Butler to Celtics

Celtics send Zeller, Crowder to Bulls and Jaylen Brown to Knicks - Celtics send a nice draft pick to Bulls - not #1 pick

Celtics add superstar

Knicks get rid of Melo without taking on a bad long term deal, get some guys who can help

Bulls get Melo cause it would be fun, add some players who can play and some picks

Why would melo say yes? maybe he likes Chicago.....

okay, hopeless, just trying


I always wondered what the final straw for me as a knicks fan would be... but losing picks to make the Bulls and Celtics better sums it up pretty well.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby taowave » April 26, 2017, 12:53 pm

Now that Phil got the extra 2 years and well deserved 24 mil, any chance he admits that the Phil era should end?
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby Don Che » April 26, 2017, 1:38 pm

I feel bad for you guys...i remember the zeke years and I couldnt stand that man and his decisions...it was horrible having to love a team when ur against the guy making decisions.

I'm team Phil...even tho if KP wants him gone then he gotta go but outside of that...I'm rooting for the guy
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