Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby rebound » April 15, 2017, 10:21 pm

This may be an unpopular opinion but I would welcome DRose back before Melo.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby rebound » April 15, 2017, 10:22 pm

Who knows maybe Phil is playing the ultimate mind game with Melo. The carrot didn't get Melo to play team ball, defense, or come into shape not looking like he eats donuts and smokes blunts all offseason, so maybe the stick will.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby KnicksFanInSouthFL » April 16, 2017, 12:48 pm

rebound wrote:This may be an unpopular opinion but I would welcome DRose back before Melo.

Agreed, BUT at the same time I'm #teamMelo. So...

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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby nazrmohamed » April 16, 2017, 2:31 pm

rebound wrote:This may be an unpopular opinion but I would welcome DRose back before Melo.


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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby H20Knick » April 16, 2017, 3:23 pm

Hold on a second. You guys bitch about how the whole world needs to revolve around kristaps, and then you bitch about how jennings is the only guy who tries to get KP the ball and that Rose is terrible because he doesn't defend and he doesn't care about feeding the Latvian. But you want to bring Rose back? You want to rebuild but you want your PG to be 29 year old piece of glass. Why? What does this solve?

Will Rose make Kristaps better? No.
Is Rose going to make the defense better? No.
Is Rose a triangle pg? No.
Is Rose going to be the starting PG by the time our 2017 rookie + KP are nearing their primes? No.

All Rose does is get you 5-10 more meaningless wins which means he hurts your pick next season. We need more high draft picks. You guys think we're done rebuilding already or something. We're not. We need more picks. We need to develop young guys. Draft a PG, let him grow. Between Fox, DSJ, and even Monk, theres no way we dont end up with a pg in this draft. IF you like Isaac over Monk and those are the two best available, that's fine. But at that point, I'd trade for Mudiay, who can barely even get minutes in Denver, and see if the triangle can turn him into Ron Harper. The only guy over 28 who can be here next year is Courtney Lee
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby big_j_NY » April 16, 2017, 3:32 pm

H20Knick wrote:Hold on a second. You guys bitch about how the whole world needs to revolve around kristaps, and then you bitch about how jennings is the only guy who tries to get KP the ball and that Rose is terrible because he doesn't defend and he doesn't care about feeding the Latvian. But you want to bring Rose back? You want to rebuild but you want your PG to be 29 year old piece of glass. Why? What does this solve?

Will Rose make Kristaps better? No.
Is Rose going to make the defense better? No.
Is Rose a triangle pg? No.
Is Rose going to be the starting PG by the time our 2017 rookie + KP are nearing their primes? No.

All Rose does is get you 5-10 more meaningless wins which means he hurts your pick next season. We need more high draft picks. You guys think we're done rebuilding already or something. We're not. We need more picks. We need to develop young guys. Draft a PG, let him grow. Between Fox, DSJ, and even Monk, theres no way we dont end up with a pg in this draft. IF you like Isaac over Monk and those are the two best available, that's fine. But at that point, I'd trade for Mudiay, who can barely even get minutes in Denver, and see if the triangle can turn him into Ron Harper. The only guy over 28 who can be here next year is Courtney Lee


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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby NYGM » April 16, 2017, 5:08 pm

H20Knick wrote:Hold on a second. You guys bitch about how the whole world needs to revolve around kristaps, and then you bitch about how jennings is the only guy who tries to get KP the ball and that Rose is terrible because he doesn't defend and he doesn't care about feeding the Latvian. But you want to bring Rose back? You want to rebuild but you want your PG to be 29 year old piece of glass. Why? What does this solve?

Will Rose make Kristaps better? No.
Is Rose going to make the defense better? No.
Is Rose a triangle pg? No.
Is Rose going to be the starting PG by the time our 2017 rookie + KP are nearing their primes? No.

All Rose does is get you 5-10 more meaningless wins which means he hurts your pick next season. We need more high draft picks. You guys think we're done rebuilding already or something. We're not. We need more picks. We need to develop young guys. Draft a PG, let him grow. Between Fox, DSJ, and even Monk, theres no way we dont end up with a pg in this draft. IF you like Isaac over Monk and those are the two best available, that's fine. But at that point, I'd trade for Mudiay, who can barely even get minutes in Denver, and see if the triangle can turn him into Ron Harper. The only guy over 28 who can be here next year is Courtney Lee


Don't want DRose back.. I rather have Melo..

Also would like to build around KP and WHG.. With some guy like this one as a lead guard..

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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby bobhait » April 16, 2017, 5:27 pm

Rose being back means we didn't get the kind of point guard we actually need yet again - the kind who defends and passes the ball - which keeps happening under Jax over and over again
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby taowave » April 16, 2017, 6:13 pm

Im pretty sure I read where Phill sees Rose as a scoring guard...whatever that means
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby nazrmohamed » April 16, 2017, 6:24 pm

Amazing post H20, and good follow up big-j. Perhaps in arguing Isaac it may be lost that I do indeed like the pgs in this draft. I just know that drafts never work out exactly how you like. I could see every pg plus Jackson gone by the 7th pick, just as I can see us sliding backward so I offer options for every selection. I also defend Isaac cuz I hear people misrepresenting his skills and potential.

But if we landed Smith I'd be estatic. Id actually be surprised if he weren't gone by the time we pick. The dude has that it factor. Each of these pgs are different and can be elite at what they do.....but they are different.

Fultz- I don't even know that he's a true pg. In college of you are good with the ball in your hands you play pg most of the time. It's just how coaches at that level coach. But Fultz reminds me of Derreck Rose and that's not me being negative. In fact he probably is the most likely player to win an mvp in this draft. He gets where he wants, dunks when he wants, can hit big shots and operates like a go to scorer with playmaking ability

Ball and Fox- are like Kidd/Rondo respectively. They could end up leaders of a franchise but when I imagine it, it's more from a puppet master stand point. I see that ball on a string, feeding a primary scorer perhsps at a different position.

Smith- can do alot of both. He can score like either a primary or secondary option while still being an assist generator almost like a Chris Paul or Damian Lillard. I think he'll carry the swagger of an alpha even if he's actually the second leading scorer. Similar to how Paul and Griffen firm a duo where Blake is a leading scorer but it's still Pauls team, I think he could get KP to reach his potential of being a 25pt scorer, he himself score 18 but make EVERYONE better to the point that it appears to be Smith's team.

That's just what I see. Could be wrong but Ive seen him in a couple games and that's what I saw
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby H20Knick » April 16, 2017, 7:11 pm

Smith could be really good, but in regards to IT factor, he lacks the sort of intensity that makes the most dominant players special. He gets lazy, takes plays off, doesn't really play to kill. Now, with that said, its impressive that his stats are so good despite this. This could 100% be bias because I hate NC State, or because I watched more of his games wanting him to fail because he plays for NC State. I don't know, but a lot of "experts" covering the draft picked up on this as well

Rondo's a pretty harsh comparison for Fox. Fox is a wayyyyy better scorer than Rondo was in college. I think he's going to be pretty damn good as a pro. He's stupid fast and a solid defender. I like that.

Fultz. I'd actually cry tears of joy if we got the first pick and got to draft him. He's the pick I've waited the last 20 years for. I'd build the entire team just to suit him.

Ball... he's got a weird shooting form and he's not a good defender. I'm not as high on him as the rest of the world seems to be, but his court vision is unparalleled, so there's that.

So you're right, with the exception of Jackson, it could be that those guys are all gone by the time we pick. I'm not brave enough to draft Ntilinka. If we have the 6th pick and all 4 PGs + Jackson are gone, I'm taking Tatum. If we have the 7th pick and all 4 PGs + Jackson/Tatum are gone, I'm taking Isaac. If we have the 8th pick and all 4 PGs are gone AND Jackson/Tatum/Isaac are gone, then I guess I have to take Ntilinka, but I'd consider Monk. Obviously if it's 9th, I take whoever between Ntilinka or Monk is still there.

If we draft a SF though, then I start Baker and let Randle be the backup. That's guaranteed to bring you extra losses and that's the way to Porter, Sexton, or Ayton in the 2018 draft.

I have no problem drafting a SF. I just don't think you need to sign Rose because of it. The only argument would be that youre hindering KP's progress by not giving him a real point guard. But I counter that by saying that Derrick Rose does no more for KP than not having a real PG would. If anything, i'd consider bringing Jennings back instead. He'd be cheaper and more accepting of being 4th or 5th in the offensive priority list
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby noypi » April 16, 2017, 9:24 pm

I'd take Darren Collison over Rose.

As for who to draft, let's have a mock draft and consider team need and fit.

1st Celtics - Fultz - BPA Duh!
2nd Suns- Jackson - They are set at the backcourt and PJ Tucker left a hole at the SF spot.
3rd Lakers - Ball - Russell has been playing well as a 2 and Clarkson spends a lot of time at the 1.
4th Sixers - Monk or DSJ - They need scoring and/or playmaking in the backcourt
5th Magic - Tatum/Isaac - Big hole at SF, Hezonja sucks.
6th Wolves - Isaac/Markkanen/Tatum - Floor spacing PF. They could trade their pick for an established PF like Millsap or Melo 8-)
7th Knicks - DSJ/Fox/Ntilikina - WE NEED A PG!!!!!!
8th Kings - BPA
9th Mavs - BPA
10th Kings - BPA
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby Don Che » April 16, 2017, 9:49 pm

with KP actin the way he is about this..i see Melo staying and they all meet up and keep things 100 and Melo stays

if thats the case.....and I mean this 100%...Baker would win more games for us than Rose would.

Rose helps you if hes your 2nd option and 2nd playmakers and uptempo game......thats not us.

If all the PG's are gone or we draft Jackson....I'm starting Baker

the real issue is what to do with KP and Melo...how to utilize them best on offense and defense
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby NYGM » April 16, 2017, 9:56 pm

I think the players who can slip are Monk and DSJ.. Tatum and Isaac are likely to move up in the Draft once the workouts start..

The only way i see us taking Isaac (Tatum seems to be a Melo's look a like) is if we trade Melo for Rivers and a pick..

That left us with Monk and DSJ.. Both are 6'3 and athletic but one is projected as a SG and the other as a PG..

For all the DSJ bad rep as a defender he seems to be well rounded (4+reb and 6+ast per game), that type of game as an explosive PG like Lillard or Lowry (not sure about him being CP3 like) is what we need from our lead guard..
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby Don Che » April 16, 2017, 10:36 pm

Monk Melo and KP sounds like a nightmare..all he talent but all that failure
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby PinoyKnicksFan » April 16, 2017, 11:50 pm

I agree with Phil about applying a system to a team, you need the right players to play different parts of that system. It's the same way with D'Antoni's offense (but he never got the last say about the players he needed during his Knicks tenure). Woodson was just lucky. And with that, some players just don't fit, no matter how great they are as scorers unless that player is REALLY good creating the offense for him AND his team mates.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby taowave » April 17, 2017, 6:40 am

Woodson wasnt lucky,he played the right system for Melo,and got the team to play D.

When you dont have a guaranteed contract,you have to play to win NOW with what you have.In Woodsons case,it was Melo ball at the 4 with JR having a green light.

We can talk about systems all day long,but if they players cant defend,its all pointless





PinoyKnicksFan wrote:I agree with Phil about applying a system to a team, you need the right players to play different parts of that system. It's the same way with D'Antoni's offense (but he never got the last say about the players he needed during his Knicks tenure). Woodson was just lucky. And with that, some players just don't fit, no matter how great they are as scorers unless that player is REALLY good creating the offense for him AND his team mates.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby Don Che » April 17, 2017, 10:19 am

GM/Coach relationships is everything in this league and the last time we got a good relationship in that area...we won 54 games with a decent coach and old roster...in a weaker eastern conference but who cares.

Only issue is...that team was nothing to build with since everyone was 90 years old. anyway

I guess i had to leave the bandwagon ...I want Phil gone but i still want us to run the triangle...i actually like the offense and get players who fit it.

If I have to pick Phil/Rambis or KP...im taking KP lol

Plus Allan Houston has been waiting for this job for 10 years now..wtf is this guy going to be ready? Hes seen SSOL/Larry Brown/Zeke/Phil/Grunnie/Donnie .......he has literally seen every way to fail a franchise..why cant he figure out how to fix it?...I can fix it from my living room.
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby cragganmor » April 17, 2017, 1:09 pm

one writer compared dsj to steve francis; if that's true, then I'd pass. the more i think about it lonzo reminds me of penny hardaway, but more efficient; a long, talented playmaker that could see over defenses with some scoring ability. I'd pass on both, actually...
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Re: Phil Admits the Melo Era Should End

Postby H20Knick » April 17, 2017, 1:15 pm

Don Che wrote:Plus Allan Houston has been waiting for this job for 10 years now..wtf is this guy going to be ready? Hes seen SSOL/Larry Brown/Zeke/Phil/Grunnie/Donnie .......he has literally seen every way to fail a franchise..why cant he figure out how to fix it?...I can fix it from my living room.


oh man... now THAT's a move i can get behind. I'd love to see Houston take over. We just have to deal with 2 more years of Phil first. Not sure if the franchise could even actually endure 2 more years of Phil. But we don't have a choice
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