2017-2018 Tank

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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » February 22, 2018, 2:24 pm

his star power is there but if you dont have those 2 things i mentioned...you never end up reaching that talent.

i said last week that knowing Mills as a Zeke disciple i think we are taking Knox so ive been persuading myself that hes the right guy but i just dont objectively see it.

his motor is suspect...to the highest degree and motor isnt something guys just pick up at the wing position..big guys yes but not wing guys.

doesnt rebound well/gets out of place on defense..has a 102 defensive rating/2.2 turnovers a game and 1.5 assists. He's 6'9 but has .9 steals and .2 blocks.

now I dont want you to think I dont see the good with this kid and how he can possibly successful.

As I mentioned, the NBA is a open court/space league and Knox fits those 2 things to A TTTTTTT.
6'9 and looks to me he's gonna grow to be 6'10 maybe 6'11 by the time he's 25
has nice form on his jumper
runs like a deer


i think coaching and his love for the details be his barometer ....he can have a career like PG....or Beasley...its a tad too risky.

Mikal Bridges can be really good and at worst hes gonna be solid.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby nazrmohamed » February 22, 2018, 3:24 pm

Don Che wrote:like it or not if we arent top 3........

we are picking btwn Kevin Knox and Bridges Bros

Knox has all the tools but intangbiles and motor just dont seem high to me and New York is a hard place to play in when you lack intangibles and motor


Ugghh, you know how I feel about Knox. Just reminds me of someone like Gerald Green. Hype with no substance.

I'd be ecstatic with anyone with the last name Bridges tho
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » February 22, 2018, 4:01 pm

i hope Sexton and Knox have a great tourney and another GM takes them ahead of where we think.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby spree#8 » February 22, 2018, 4:55 pm

Don Che wrote:his star power is there but if you dont have those 2 things i mentioned...you never end up reaching that talent.

i said last week that knowing Mills as a Zeke disciple i think we are taking Knox so ive been persuading myself that hes the right guy but i just dont objectively see it.

his motor is suspect...to the highest degree and motor isnt something guys just pick up at the wing position..big guys yes but not wing guys.

doesnt rebound well/gets out of place on defense..has a 102 defensive rating/2.2 turnovers a game and 1.5 assists. He's 6'9 but has .9 steals and .2 blocks.

now I dont want you to think I dont see the good with this kid and how he can possibly successful.

As I mentioned, the NBA is a open court/space league and Knox fits those 2 things to A TTTTTTT.
6'9 and looks to me he's gonna grow to be 6'10 maybe 6'11 by the time he's 25
has nice form on his jumper
runs like a deer


i think coaching and his love for the details be his barometer ....he can have a career like PG....or Beasley...its a tad too risky.

Mikal Bridges can be really good and at worst hes gonna be solid.


Agreed, but he could be gone when we pick. I don't care what Zeke would've done, though I know: he traded all lottery picks except of one. He also took a guy no one had in his top 100 at 20. I see a talent I like and am not scared if he is our best option. Never said I wouldn't pick Mikal or Miles above him. I wonder how you thought about Klay Thompson during his freshman season. But I'll check whether I see the same red flags you see. BTW: defensive rating is first of all flawed, but if your OR is 111.5 and your defensive rating 102.2, that's very good.

Edit: Balkman was taken at 20. Urghh.
Last edited by spree#8 on February 22, 2018, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby spree#8 » February 22, 2018, 4:58 pm

Don Che wrote:i hope Sexton and Knox have a great tourney and another GM takes them ahead of where we think.


There are still people who think Sexton's game is more suited for the NBA than Young's. But I doubt we would be interested in Sexton, because I doubt that our scouts see him a tier above the wing prospects we might consider.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » February 22, 2018, 5:17 pm

Klay played 3 years of college so its quite different....but I will admit i didnt see him being the shooter/defender that he is...guy is a beast.

i see Klay as Mikal's ceiling

i just dont see knox get dirty out there and with a guy in his talent level i want to see either a prospect bring the fight or out think the opponent.


Knox doesnt do either he "just plays" thats alarming. Luckily they are fixable.

Melo was like that also but he had flashes of bringing the fight.....dude just didnt think.
Last edited by Don Che on February 22, 2018, 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby spree#8 » February 22, 2018, 5:18 pm

Don Che wrote:Klay played 3 years of college so its quite different....but I will admit i didnt see him being the shooter/defender that he is...guy is a beast.

i see Klay as Mikal's ceiling

i just dont see knox get dirty out there and with a guy in his talent level i want to see either a prospect bring the fight or out think the opponent.


Knox doesnt do either thats alarming. Luckily they are fixable.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pl ... son-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pl ... nox-1.html

I'm just saying that I see a very interesting player in Knox. Thompson played 3 years in college and still people had some doubts and he went 11th in his draft. Gotta consider and work out those guys. Very young, very good shot, good physical attributes. Could become a player. At 9-11 it's a homerun if you can find someone that's good enough to be a second or third option on a winner. Devin Booker is another one of those guys that got overlooked because people weren't sure if he could do enough other things than shooting and weren't sure how his game translates.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » February 22, 2018, 5:25 pm

yeh its blank from his freshman year lol

not sure what your point is....he had a 95 DR when he got drafted
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby spree#8 » February 22, 2018, 5:28 pm

Don Che wrote:yeh its blank from his freshman year lol

not sure what your point is....he had a 95 DR when he got drafted


Not sure, what that has to do with anything? DR is a very flawed stat. Good luck if you want to identify good wing defenders with that.

My point is that I look at Knox when we stay between 9 and 11. That's all. Haven't seen enough of him to advocate for or against him. Just saying that I see a talent and will take a hard look. And BTW: your skepticism is noted. Seems like you have watched that kid way more than I.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » February 22, 2018, 5:44 pm

1. i still am not sure why your mentioned Klay's first year
2. all stats can only be applied after seeing the guys play
3. we both agree that he has talent, i just gave specific things that I dislike about the kid maximizing that talent.

you havent seen him so....i just dont see the point in you responding in this issue lol

when you see him lmk what you think because i do think he'll be on the board when we pick. He plays a position of need and in my conspiracy mind i think Mills would do what his boy would do and take him lol...so if you see something i dont in regards to him i'd like to hear it.


i start early for the draft as long as we have a pick...so by the time i blab here...ive already done some work..Knox has been a lottery talent since he was 16. Better yet Jonathan Issaac was working with a trainer, Akii Dean big florida movement down there all best players in florida work with him...Knox was kind of like the "little brother" to him and Issaac the last 2 or so years.

so trust me....i like this draft stuff more than the NBA at this point. Dont assume im looking at a stat and going ham on a kid based off of it independently.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » February 22, 2018, 5:48 pm

watching the michigan st/illinois game and the commentators made a solid point saying that JJJ might stay an extra year like Miles did.

boy o boy would i love for that to happen...if our pick is after 5
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby spree#8 » February 22, 2018, 6:08 pm

Don Che wrote:...

you havent seen him so....i just dont see the point in you responding in this issue lol
...


Eh, of course I have seen him. I said: you apparently watched him a lot more than I have so far.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » February 22, 2018, 6:12 pm

i went into the year really wanting to see vanderbilt...who i still like

but knox is the alpha of this squad tho....also can see why they are struggling compared to prior years
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby spree#8 » February 22, 2018, 6:14 pm

Don Che wrote:1. i still am not sure why your mentioned Klay's first year
...
3. we both agree that he has talent, i just gave specific things that I dislike about the kid maximizing that talent.

y...so if you see something i dont in regards to him i'd like to hear it.


i start early for the draft as long as we have a pick...


1) I mentioned Klay, because he just like Booker or Butler or George or Leonard ... all are guys that were available at the spot we might pick this year and all had some of the same question marks you raise about Knox.

2) I see a guy that could become a flat out shooter/scorer at a position we need.

3) I also always start early on the draft stuff, I just haven't seen too many full games of Knox, that's why I said, I haven't noticed any of your red flags, especially since it seems I look at those 18 year old guys in a different way than you (focusing more on the strength).

BTW: in our draft range it'll often be the wings or guards that can be steals, while among the bigmen I would only target the absolute top guys, because the 5th or 6th best bigman often doesn't pan out that well (see Sweetney, Frye, Hill etc.).
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby nazrmohamed » February 22, 2018, 7:38 pm

Don Che wrote:i hope Sexton and Knox have a great tourney and another GM takes them ahead of where we think.


Well, I wouldn't go that far. First of all I like Sexton. I know you ain't sold but you drop 40 pts in a game then you are legit. He gets to the rim and finishes too but anyway onto Knox. I might not object to Knox being looked at if he shows up big in the tourney. Hey, it's a performance based business. He performs and has those measurements and maybe he proves me wrong.

But based on both of our views on him I don't expect to have to worry about that.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » February 23, 2018, 11:11 am

Spree, Klay/Butler/PG played multiple years and none of them were lottery talent out of HS..its a bit different

and none of those guys had motor issues from what i remember either....esp Butler he was all brawn no skill for most of his college career.

Booker was a hard read because he was off the bench for a college team.

and yes Knox can be a 20 ppg type guy.....i just question what else he brings when his shot is off.

my concerns for him in a way is also a compliment.....there are games he gets 8 assists...there are games he gets 10 rebounds...but he's just scattered in those substance plays.

loose balls he's a tad slower too and there are mental lapses on assignments ...again these are all fixable and hes so young but at the same time its still a concern..ive seen dozens of players have those issues at 18 and at 28 have the same issue.

i tend to like players that seem to like work and progressively get better at things BEFORE the nba...even if that skill doesnt translate to the NBA immediately atleast it tells me hes a worker..and if you put that mentality in a guy like Knox...he'd be a serious problem. I'm just waiting to see the work match the talent.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby NewlyKnicked » February 23, 2018, 11:34 am

Two questions for you, Don:
- what do you mean exactly by "motor"? I thought it meant stamina but it seems you value Knox athleticism so I'm not sure anymore. Or is it that he is explosive but doesn't have what it takes to perform at full throttle the full game?
- did mikal bridges improve over his 3 past years in college? did you see him erase some of his flaws? that would mean a lot in my book because it would indicate he puts the work but in a smart way, listening to his coaches and critics
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby shakespeare » February 23, 2018, 12:03 pm

Good discussions, guys.

Keep it coming.

Don Che,
Mikal Bridges is often compared to Kawhi Leonard https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vuhoop ... mprovement
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby shakespeare » February 23, 2018, 12:20 pm

Don Che wrote:i went into the year really wanting to see vanderbilt...who i still like



Same. It’s not every day we witness a 6’9” athletic freak with a 7’1” wingspan and 39” vertical that can play every position on the floor except center.

From two days ago:

But the x-factor here, the guy that now looks like he could be what sparks a Kentucky run that could salvage their season, is Vanderbilt. He is the one player on this roster that can change a game without needing the ball in his hands. He’s a workhorse on the glass with boundless athleticism and energy. He can block shots. He can play a small-ball five role and he can also get out an defend on the perimeter when needed. He can take a defensive rebound and go coast-to-coast.

No one else on this team can do all of those things. And that is before you get to the simple fact that he has some dog in him. He brings a level of intensity and toughness, both physically and mentally, that Kentucky has lacked at times, and in the last two games he seems to finally be getting up to speed with what it takes to win at this level.


I hate to say, but if I’m Vanderbilt, I’d stay in college for another season [rehabbing the injury prevented him from being the high lottery pick he truly is, in my humble opinion] to ensure that I’m mentally-ready for the NBA, since he’s just now returning to form from the preseason injury. Not to mention he really needs to work on his shooting. Besides those things, I’ve been intrigued with Vanderbilt’s potential since he played high school hoops.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » February 23, 2018, 1:40 pm

NewlyKnicked wrote:Two questions for you, Don:
- what do you mean exactly by "motor"? I thought it meant stamina but it seems you value Knox athleticism so I'm not sure anymore. Or is it that he is explosive but doesn't have what it takes to perform at full throttle the full game?
- did mikal bridges improve over his 3 past years in college? did you see him erase some of his flaws? that would mean a lot in my book because it would indicate he puts the work but in a smart way, listening to his coaches and critics


great question NK!

by motor i mean hustle/effort and nose for the ball the guy that starts the box out not the guy thats reacting to it. Mikal has gotten MUCH better but even as a freshman he was a high motor player...watch highlights from the championship run...he guarded everyone..diving on the floor...getting key rebounds. Those are the type of things i dont see from Knox yet...and usually those things are black or white..either u have it or dont but there are exceptions and i hope knox is one of them...we'll see in a week.

Mikal ultimately went from being a lanky/high motor role player into being a college star in 2 years. His shot has taken strides every here in every aspect.

last year he focused on catch and shoot...this year he's worked on catching off curls...posting on the block. His freshman year he was mainly a cutter and fast break guy. He's added minor layers every year.

in the NBA he just has to make his skills get to NBA level...then add his handle. if he intends to be special...he technically could just stand put with his skills now and make those skills nba ready and help a team win.

Knox has a lot of work to do in that regard....if his jumper isnt falling he at times doesnt do anything else to help you win and when evaluating impact guys thats the main ingredient to great players...especially at the wing position.

theres a reason why PG is an all star and Tobias is a solid starter...both are compared to Knox but the difference btwn the 2 is that exact sentiment. PG doesnt need to drop 40 to kill you. Tobias while good isnt very good nor great because he doesnt have those extra elements to his game
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