2017-2018 Tank

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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby shakespeare » January 13, 2018, 10:20 am

spree#8 wrote:
Is this where we will stay? Doubtful.


Well, I can’t see us receiving one of the top 5 picks in the draft nor can I see us earning one of the 8 seeds in the playoffs. I could be wrong, but I could also be correct.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby nazrmohamed » January 13, 2018, 11:34 am

6-10 is still pretty attractive too Shakes. I could style for that too but we need to be in the top 10. 5-10 and your still looking at guys like

Jackson
Sexton
Mikal Bridges
Knox
Possible that even Porter falls to that low.
It's once you land outside of that that things get tricky. But even up to pick 12 is good. I just rather be closer to top 5 cause it gives us more options and a higher ceiling.

My goal is an elite C or a wings with some play making ability.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby shakespeare » January 13, 2018, 3:11 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:6-10 is still pretty attractive too Shakes.

I just rather be closer to top 5 cause it gives us more options and a higher ceiling.


Agreed and agreed. Picks 5-10 should command a contributor, at least. But like you stated, I’d rather see us draft a player with a higher ceiling.

Not the end of the world, but missing out on both ends [playoffs, high lottery pick] would suck.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » January 13, 2018, 6:09 pm

i just want no parts of Sexton nor Knox


Doncic on this roster for offense is amazing...defense tho? Do you see Hardaway and Doncic defending at a high level? I dunno along with having Kanter at the 5.

We need more plus defenders
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby rebound » January 13, 2018, 6:13 pm

Don Che wrote:i just want no parts of Sexton nor Knox


Doncic on this roster for offense is amazing...defense tho? Do you see Hardaway and Doncic defending at a high level? I dunno along with having Kanter at the 5.

We need more plus defenders



not following ncaa until march, what's the downsides to sexton and knox?
sexton seems intense, which i always appreciate.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby nazrmohamed » January 13, 2018, 6:59 pm

And trust me shakes, most of these fans who are all about Knick pride won't act proud of a team that just misses the playoffs..... you missed the playoffs. They won't be that proud of a team that gets routed in the first round either. Cut the bullshit. We're at a point that will decide where we are for the next 10 yrs. This team sucks, don't waste it with fake hustle. NY is right at the point where 6 yrs ago we woulda traded for Carmel. Before we do something stupid, I rather stack as many assets as possible and there's nothing more valuable than high potential youth. We have three on a roster of 14, really 2.

I believe we need 3. You gotta understand KP, Hardaway and Kanter aren't my core. That's like a place holder core. My core is more about Frank, KP and the player we haven't drafted yet. Why are we wasting time? I'll give them to trade deadline but we need to be sellers at the deadline. I'd prioritize potential in any move. And then post deadline we should be in full tank mode. The top end talent has high end potential.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby nazrmohamed » January 13, 2018, 7:20 pm

Don Che wrote:i just want no parts of Sexton nor Knox


Doncic on this roster for offense is amazing...defense tho? Do you see Hardaway and Doncic defending at a high level? I dunno along with having Kanter at the 5.

We need more plus defenders


Don, if you had Djoncic you'd make it work. We could get a defensive C for Kanter pretty easy. At that point we're talking about having 3 high end draft prospects, KP/Frank/Djoncic. That's what matters. You gotta see Kanter and Hardaway as the help and whatever fits the trio I mentioned gets to play. Go get your defenders via FA, smart trades and have Hardaway and Kanter come off the bench for all I care.

But first you gotta get to that point. You gotta tank bro. Right now we're in range to find filler. Doncic is a star, people wanna talk about his athleticism. He's got deceptive quickness and hesitation dribbles to throw guys off, he's an elite level playmaker and he's a fearless 3pt shot maker. He would define our gameplay, people gotta understand the gravity of that. Not Frank, not KP. Luca is gonna be the on ball player with Frank and KP playoff off ball. And not because of his scoring, although I believe he'll be a pretty good scorer but because of his command and leadership. Dude has that IT factor.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » January 14, 2018, 12:44 am

So doncic is Ur #1 pick....who else do you like?


Trae has that IT factor also

Offensively those 2 are the star players in this class
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby noypi » January 14, 2018, 3:41 am



Sexton should be our pick if he's available. Made 40pts on 3 vs. 5.

Not even KP has this kid's fire and competitiveness. KP's too tired chasing after models and it shows on the court lol.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby big_j_NY » January 14, 2018, 4:28 am

nazrmohamed wrote:Don, if you had Djoncic you'd make it work. We could get a defensive C for Kanter pretty easy. At that point we're talking about having 3 high end draft prospects, KP/Frank/Djoncic. That's what matters. You gotta see Kanter and Hardaway as the help and whatever fits the trio I mentioned gets to play. Go get your defenders via FA, smart trades and have Hardaway and Kanter come off the bench for all I care.

But first you gotta get to that point. You gotta tank bro. Right now we're in range to find filler. Doncic is a star, people wanna talk about his athleticism. He's got deceptive quickness and hesitation dribbles to throw guys off, he's an elite level playmaker and he's a fearless 3pt shot maker. He would define our gameplay, people gotta understand the gravity of that. Not Frank, not KP. Luca is gonna be the on ball player with Frank and KP playoff off ball. And not because of his scoring, although I believe he'll be a pretty good scorer but because of his command and leadership. Dude has that IT factor.


I've heard the critiques of Doncic's athleticism, but then I'm like..........Doncic is no different than how James Harden is athletically, and we see how Harden performs.

Hell, one of Doncic's other NBA comparisons happens to be Manu Ginobili whom also has similar athleticism back in his prime years, which if you guys remember Ginobili back in his prime...........that guy was a difference maker for the Spurs and actually is the primary reason why the Spurs were able to beat that 2004 Champion Pistons squad back in the 2005 NBA Finals. No one on the Pistons was able to stop Ginobili's ability to slash into the paint from the wing, and Ginobili's ability to make great plays of dribble penetration was key in that series. This was while Tony Parker was beginning to make a name for himself as a starting NBA point guard as well.

If Doncic is even close to Ginobili the moment he is draft, that kid can go really far in the NBA............and if we tank correctly, I hope it is in a Knicks jersey.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby nazrmohamed » January 14, 2018, 8:15 am

Djoncic isn't my number one pick Don. I'm just making a good argument for him, that's all. I'm pretty confused to be honest. I think it's an amazing draft at the top. Maybe better than last year's, with about 3 guys being worthy. The only thing I'm 100% sure of is being in position to grab any of the guys I typically mention, by ensuring we are a top 5 pick...... And as a consolation prize 6-10. We miss the playoffs and end up with pick 14 and it's a severe failure.

Big J, I never even thought of that. Kudos. But yeah, I can see something to that effect. I still expect Frank would be our PG in name. But you'd get the ball to Djoncic in the half court and he'd do his thing. Essentially it's like 2K where you could give a non pg the designation of play initiator.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby taowave » January 14, 2018, 10:03 am

On the topic of athleticism, interesting read on what makes Harden special.The first part is his brilliant basketball mind,which hopefully Frank posssess.

More interesting,is Harden tests out below average in almost every athletic measure except for one.He possesses unrivaled deceleration,not just against Bball players,but against the best athletes in any sport.Simply put,no one can change pace better than Harden,and at 6'5" 230,he's a beast..





Basketball is a sport where you don’t necessarily have to be the fastest to succeed and James Harden of the Houston Rockets has been demonstrating that all throughout this season as well as his entire career,..

changing speeds is not just about your explosiveness.



To anyone that doesn’t follow the NBA, James Harden has just wrapped up a historical season leading the league in assists, while averaging a stat-line that hasn’t been seen since Oscar Robertson and producing the most points per game for his team since Wilt Chamberlain in 1961-62, all while leading his team to the third best record in the NBA. Simply said, what he’s accomplished this season is amazing.

I remember how at one point during the season I was listening to a podcast where it was quickly mentioned as a side note that P3 Applied Sports Science, who have worked with over 100 NBA players, measured James Harden’s athletic abilities and found out that he was average to below average in most categories. While being one of the best basketball players on the planet, his physique certainly doesn’t stand out as much as that of LeBron James or Russel Westbrook. So, finding out that he’s not one of the most athletic players in the NBA is definitely not a surprise. But knowing this, what is it then, besides the cognitive portion of the game, that gives him such an enormous edge over the rest of his peers in the NBA?

It turns out that James Harden is elite at decelerating, according to Marcus Elliott at P3. His exact words are “Harden is barely average in almost every metric we look at related to athleticism, except for deceleration metrics, and in those he’s one of the best athletes we’ve ever measured in any sport — in soccer, football, or basketball.” Anyone who’s ever played basketball knows how important change of pace is but when striving to become better players, both athletes and coaches often focus on acceleration and explosiveness. Yet by decelerating quicker than your opponents you can always gain an advantage in the open floor as well as in short spaces on the court, which Harden has clearly been demonstrating all throughout his career.

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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » January 14, 2018, 3:03 pm

I can think of plenty of reasons to take Doncic...but I can also figure some reasons why he doesnt fit us with that said Doncic is better than James Harden/Manu as at 18..no doubt about it

Harden is a hard blueprint to follow. And while he is flat out a video game of a ball player...his lack of athleticism is the reason why i think he struggles deep in the playoffs and i do think this year hes gonna be ready for it but last year....and even some younger years his play once teams figured out his schemes was disheartening


but thats him and not Doncic to a degree...Doncic is bigger and actually a bit of a better athlete.


Frank can play with another playmaker and also be that playmaker if need be. I do think we need guys who makes others better...Doncic def fits the bill.

Trae Young is the only guy that I like that i dont think fits with Frank too much but I think he can go 18/8 right now on a NBA floor. I just wonder if he can defend NBA athletes
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » January 14, 2018, 3:37 pm

nazr i do think the 5 spot or w/e spot next to KP needs to be resolved.

if we go wing or PG in the draft....i'd sign Kevon Looney to be that guy...he's thin but he's 21 and can guard multiple positions. And let KP defend the rim. Let Noah be the back up incase we have legit bigs to worry about.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby shakespeare » January 14, 2018, 3:56 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:And trust me shakes, most of these fans who are all about Knick pride won't act proud of a team that just misses the playoffs..... you missed the playoffs. They won't be that proud of a team that gets routed in the first round either. Cut the bullshit. We're at a point that will decide where we are for the next 10 yrs. This team sucks, don't waste it with fake hustle. NY is right at the point where 6 yrs ago we woulda traded for Carmel. Before we do something stupid, I rather stack as many assets as possible and there's nothing more valuable than high potential youth. We have three on a roster of 14, really 2.

I believe we need 3. You gotta understand KP, Hardaway and Kanter aren't my core. That's like a place holder core. My core is more about Frank, KP and the player we haven't drafted yet. Why are we wasting time? I'll give them to trade deadline but we need to be sellers at the deadline. I'd prioritize potential in any move. And then post deadline we should be in full tank mode. The top end talent has high end potential.


Excellent post.

I agree with everything said.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby rebound » January 14, 2018, 8:04 pm

every loss brings the knicks closer to real change: a top draft pick and hornacek being fired.

now perry just needs to get rid of courtney lee before it's too late.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby nazrmohamed » January 14, 2018, 8:21 pm

Don Che wrote:nazr i do think the 5 spot or w/e spot next to KP needs to be resolved.

if we go wing or PG in the draft....i'd sign Kevon Looney to be that guy...he's thin but he's 21 and can guard multiple positions. And let KP defend the rim. Let Noah be the back up incase we have legit bigs to worry about.


Yeah, I could go either way. I'm not too thrilled about finding a pg, even with Frank seemingly shitting the bed. Once you do that you might as well trade him for an additional first rounder, which might not be such a bad idea.

My wish list play the 3-5. Most are 3s and 5s but if Bagley were to be there I'd take him and move KP to the 5. It really dont matter which position they play. Both can do complimentary things.
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » January 14, 2018, 8:33 pm

Bagelys game won't translate as good as ppl think on offense imo unless he shreds the tournament

Doncic/Bamba/Ayton/JJJ

I'm curious about

Porter I can't judge

Frank will be fine... once this season is over...Frank will take over
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby taowave » January 14, 2018, 8:38 pm

You are being very optimistic on Frank.I haven't seen special in his game.Solid D,decent vision,but not enamored with hos offense athleticism.

Don Che wrote:Bagelys game won't translate as good as ppl think on offense imo unless he shreds the tournament

Doncic/Bamba/Ayton/JJJ

I'm curious about

Porter I can't judge

Frank will be fine... once this season is over...Frank will take over
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Re: 2017-2018 Tank

Postby Don Che » January 14, 2018, 8:48 pm

I see flashes of really good things and I think his demeanor and work ethic will prevail...I don't see him as a problem just yet
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