The talent acquisition phase

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The talent acquisition phase

Postby spree#8 » February 20, 2018, 4:36 pm

We started quite a turnover this year and are in the "talent acquisition phase" as Perry called it.

With the trade deadline in the books, let's take a look.

In:
Frank Ntilikina (19) - 1st round pick
Damyean Dotson (23) - 2nd round pick
Tim Hardaway JR (25) - restricted free agent
Luke Kornet (22) - two-way contract
Isiah Hicks (23) - two way contract
Jarret Jack (34) - free agent
Michael Beasley (29) - free agent
Enes Kanter (25) - trade
Trey Burke (25) - free agent via G-League
Emmanuel Mudiay (21) - trade
Troy Williams (23) - 10-day contract
CHI 2018 2nd round pick
CHA 2020 2nd round pick
CHA 2021 2nd round pick
Rights to Ognjen Jaramaz

Kept:
Kristaps Porzingis (22) - under contract
Kyle O'Quinn (27) - under contract
Joakim Noah (33) - under contract
Courtney Lee (32) - under contract
Lance Thomas (29) - under contract
Ron Baker (24) - resigned

Out:
Doug McDermott (26) - trade
Ramon Sessions (31) - waived
Willy Hernangomez (23) - trade
Mindaugas Kuzminskas (28) - waived
Carmelo Anthony (33) - trade
Justin Holiday (28) - signed as free agent with other team
Maurice Ndour (25) - not resigned
Marshall Plumlee (25) - waived
Chasson Randle (25) - waived
Derrick Rose (29) - signed as free agent with other team
Sasha Vujacic (33) - not resigned
2018 second round pick (Worse of NYK/LAC to DEN)
2019 second round pick (second most favorable of ORL, CLE and HOU to SAC)

It'll be interesting to see what we do this summer. We have two draft picks coming in and 12 players under contract (Burke unguaranteed and Noah questionable). As of now we could go with the MLE after other teams' free agents or - if nothing interesting presents itself - give part of the MLE to keep Beasley for some roster consistency and as the plug-in until KP returns.

This thread is meant to keep track of our roster movements and of course to discuss our roster development. I for one like the youth movement even though it remains to be seen who turns out to be a cornerstone for us and am excited whom we add through the draft.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby Don Che » February 20, 2018, 5:51 pm

i think some players with play above their contracts and prior numbers


i like what Kenny hinted at...the new wave of guards mainly score..it can be interesting to see 2 that are more passers

with guys like that you can overload in scorers in the front court and push the pace.

we have to keep in mind our numbers this year being seperate...from before now and after.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby gradyandrew » February 21, 2018, 7:11 am

It's hard for me to see any silver lining here. What I still can't believe is that the Knicks began the season with 5 guys who could be considered average or above average Centers (Enes, KOQ, Noah, Willy, KP) but will be starting next season with what? KOQ will opt out and get more money somewhere else and the rotation will be Enes and whoever the tallest guy available is with Chicago's 2nd round pick. I get where you're coming from spree. After that 99 Finals team ran out of steam the Knicks should have embraced this scenario at one time or another, but still it's tough to work up any enthusiasm for a bunch of second round picks and undrafted players.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
Management didn't get that memo.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby spree#8 » February 21, 2018, 7:52 am

I like KP, THJ, Kanter, Ntilikina, the low risk gambles on Mudiay and Burke, see two more lottery picks coming in in 2018 and 2019 with the option to tank for 2019 in light of KPs injury, like the early second round pick from CHI that could net us a better second-rounder, don't mind good veterans like Lee and O'Quinn (who could be resigned) and see us as very flexible going forward. Best situation to look forward to since 2001. We are finally developing.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby gradyandrew » February 21, 2018, 8:03 am

spree#8 wrote:I like KP, THJ, Kanter, Ntilikina, the low risk gambles on Mudiay and Burke, see two more lottery picks coming in in 2018 and 2019 with the option to tank for 2019 in light of KPs injury, like the early second round pick from CHI that could net us a better second-rounder, don't mind good veterans like Lee and O'Quinn (who could be resigned) and see us as very flexible going forward. Best situation to look forward to since 2001. We are finally developing.


Yeah we're developing but at least Frank, Mud, and Burke still have a lot to show to prove that they have a place in the NBA going forward.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
Management didn't get that memo.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby spree#8 » February 21, 2018, 8:34 am

And I should say "fundamentally best situation to look forward to". 2010-2013 was a good phase for our franchise, but going young should open up a bigger window of opportunity and is one I am waiting for since the Sprewell trade.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby gradyandrew » February 21, 2018, 10:15 am

:LOL:

Your origin story. Me, I showed up here after the Marbury trade. I still think we would have been a powerhouse if Chaney hadn't overplayed Houston. Remember that 50 point game at the Lakers? We almost had the best backcourt in the league.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
Management didn't get that memo.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby taowave » February 21, 2018, 10:32 am

My old basketball coach used to say,sometimes its better to be lucky than good..Well,we need a little luck...

KP needs to come back at 100% and stay healthy..72 >65 >48 ...Hes declined every year in games played,and complained of fatigue this year before tearing an ACL..Its not a good sign...

We need to strike Gold in the lottery,this year and/or next...

Frank or Mudiay need to show a pulse...I know alot of you guys are high on Frank,but other than flashes of smothering Irving and decent court vision,his mental makeup concerns me...

Mudiay needs to show he has PG skills as he is not beating out Hardaway at the 2,and neither is a 3 on a non tanking team.

I dont know what to say about Kanter..Love the guy,hes a monster,but can he make up for KP on D if KP loses a step?
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby gradyandrew » February 21, 2018, 11:29 am

THJ and Kanter need to bump their scoring up to 20 a game for the remainder of the season.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
Management didn't get that memo.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby Championship 16/17 » February 21, 2018, 11:43 am

spree#8 wrote:I like KP, THJ, Kanter, Ntilikina, the low risk gambles on Mudiay and Burke, see two more lottery picks coming in in 2018 and 2019 with the option to tank for 2019 in light of KPs injury, like the early second round pick from CHI that could net us a better second-rounder, don't mind good veterans like Lee and O'Quinn (who could be resigned) and see us as very flexible going forward. Best situation to look forward to since 2001. We are finally developing.


I don't think we are developing, especially with a coach that pushes his veteran players, cusses at Lee, refuses to show any confidence in Frank Ntilikina but thinks Ron Baker is amazing, and didn't play Willy bc Kanter came in like a hurricane and destroyed Willy in practice, which I think is bullshit. You want to develop these players, you have to bring in another coach, but hey we can't, bc we need stability and we need to tank the next season as well and nobody would want to coach this team, so Jeff is the best option right now, let him play out his contract and don't resign him. But your gonna lose the development aspect with these kids, bc Jeff H doesn't have a clue.

You like the above players, here is what I think.

KP- injured, the development and growth has stopped
THJ - not developing, still inconsistent
Kanter - limited offensively if he isn't bullying his way in the post, can't defend
Frank- looks lost, no direction, no improvement, no confidence in himself
Mudiay - see Frank
Burke - I think he sucks, if the Knicks released him right now, no NBA team will pick him up.

You speak of two lottery picks and a high second round pick, but we have Perry and Mills making these decisions, unless you strike gold it means nothing, this team needs a lot of help. I think Doncic is gold, but we are out of range bc it was KP 3rd season and we had to win. We had to start Jarrett Jack, postponing the development of our international PG. All we had to do was get KP in an all-star game and develop our roster, and it would be a successful season. But we overworked him to win, didn't he complain about being tired. Now we have a broke leg Unicorn, you know what they do to horses with a broken leg aka torn acl.

And you see us flexible going forward, your gona have to make a big decision on Kanter and Quinn pretty soon, which will lose our flexibility. Resigning Beasley is a lost cause.

The only thing I agree with is keeping our veterans, Lee and Quinn, but in a reserve role.
Last edited by Championship 16/17 on February 21, 2018, 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby NewlyKnicked » February 21, 2018, 11:54 am

Championship 16/17 wrote:I don't think we are developing, especially with a coach that pushes his veteran players, cusses at Lee, refuses to show any confidence in Frank Ntilikina but thinks Ron Baker is amazing, and didn't play Willy bc Kanter came in like a hurricane and destroyed Willy in practice, which I think is bullshit. You want to develop these players, you have to bring in another coach, but hey we can't, bc we need stability and we need to tank and nobody would want to coach this team, so Jeff is the best option right now, let him play out his contract and don't resign him. But your gonna lose the development aspect with these kids, bc Jeff H doesn't have a clue.

You like the above players, here is what I think.

KP- injured, the development and growth has stopped
THJ - not developing, still inconsistent
Kanter - limited offensively if he isn't bullying his way in the post, can't defend
Frank- looks lost, no direction, no improvement, no confidence in himself
Mudiay - see Frank
Burke - I think he sucks, if the Knicks released him right now, no NBA team will pick him up.

You speak of two lottery picks and a high second round pick, but we have Perry and Mills making these decisions, unless you strike gold it means nothing, this team needs a lot of help. I think Doncic is gold, but we are out of range bc it was KP 3rd season and we had to win, all we had to do was get KP in an all-star game and develop our roster, and it was a successful season. But we overworked him to win, didn't he complain about being tired. Now we have a broke leg Unicorn, you know what they do to horses with a broken leg aka torn acl.

The only thing I agree with is keeping our veterans, Lee and Quinn, but in a reserve role.

:LOL:
As long as we are in the metaphore, you forget about the legendary powers of the unicorn horn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn_h ... properties

A torn acl is easy-peasy when you supposedly heal the plague.

BTW: reading the wikipedia article, there is another power to the unicorn horn: "It would also have an aphrodisiac power known since ancient times and would test the virginity of young girls." I guess that explains KP's instagram flirts with young models :D
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby Don Che » February 21, 2018, 11:55 am

so...based on what you guys are saying for the most part..theres no hope
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby gradyandrew » February 21, 2018, 2:01 pm

I'm pretty sure that only virgins can ride a unicorn. I bet he uses that line ALL the time.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
Management didn't get that memo.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby taowave » February 21, 2018, 3:48 pm

All I am saying there are alot of IF's and KP's injury certainly didnt help.

Im looking forward to finding out what we have in the next couple of months




.
Don Che wrote:so...based on what you guys are saying for the most part..theres no hope
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby Rusty La Rue » February 21, 2018, 4:03 pm

Championship 16/17 wrote:I don't think we are developing, especially with a coach that pushes his veteran players, cusses at Lee, refuses to show any confidence in Frank Ntilikina but thinks Ron Baker is amazing, and didn't play Willy bc Kanter came in like a hurricane and destroyed Willy in practice, which I think is bullshit. You want to develop these players, you have to bring in another coach, but hey we can't, bc we need stability and we need to tank the next season as well and nobody would want to coach this team, so Jeff is the best option right now, let him play out his contract and don't resign him. But your gonna lose the development aspect with these kids, bc Jeff H doesn't have a clue.

You like the above players, here is what I think.

KP- injured, the development and growth has stopped
THJ - not developing, still inconsistent
Kanter - limited offensively if he isn't bullying his way in the post, can't defend
Frank- looks lost, no direction, no improvement, no confidence in himself
Mudiay - see Frank
Burke - I think he sucks, if the Knicks released him right now, no NBA team will pick him up.

You speak of two lottery picks and a high second round pick, but we have Perry and Mills making these decisions, unless you strike gold it means nothing, this team needs a lot of help. I think Doncic is gold, but we are out of range bc it was KP 3rd season and we had to win. We had to start Jarrett Jack, postponing the development of our international PG. All we had to do was get KP in an all-star game and develop our roster, and it would be a successful season. But we overworked him to win, didn't he complain about being tired. Now we have a broke leg Unicorn, you know what they do to horses with a broken leg aka torn acl.

And you see us flexible going forward, your gona have to make a big decision on Kanter and Quinn pretty soon, which will lose our flexibility. Resigning Beasley is a lost cause.

The only thing I agree with is keeping our veterans, Lee and Quinn, but in a reserve role.


So you are one of those the glass is half empty kind of guys :hmm:
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby NewlyKnicked » February 21, 2018, 6:28 pm

gradyandrew wrote:I'm pretty sure that only virgins can ride a unicorn. I bet he uses that line ALL the time.

I’m pretty confident there wasn’t any virgin in KP’s instagram adventures :LOL:
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby NYGM » February 21, 2018, 11:23 pm

I don't get the problem with KOQ and Kanter decision by our management.. If they ask for too much then let them go..

This draft seems to be loaded with quality bigs, just need to draft the right one to play alongside KP and we're set..

Since we are drafting BPA, if someone like Porter Jr, JJJ or someone else falls to us great.. No need to get more than another bench big IMO, since KP and our new drafted big should be getting most of the minutes..

If we get it right in the draft (like when we got KP) we'll be able to get things going faster..

This year and most of the next season (when we would need to decide what to do with Mudiay) should be about developing and knowing what you really have..

Frank/Mudiay, THJ, KP and 2018 draftee could be a really good look looking forward..

I guess with KP injury our situation became more simple, so you can talking him into a "recovery season" and extend him looking forward as a young promising team..

You can also sign someone like Hezonja who seems to be about to break out and solidify your starting line up right away..
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby Mike1989 » February 23, 2018, 4:15 pm

NYGM wrote:I don't get the problem with KOQ and Kanter decision by our management.. If they ask for too much then let them go..

This draft seems to be loaded with quality bigs, just need to draft the right one to play alongside KP and we're set..

Since we are drafting BPA, if someone like Porter Jr, JJJ or someone else falls to us great.. No need to get more than another bench big IMO, since KP and our new drafted big should be getting most of the minutes..

If we get it right in the draft (like when we got KP) we'll be able to get things going faster..

This year and most of the next season (when we would need to decide what to do with Mudiay) should be about developing and knowing what you really have..

Frank/Mudiay, THJ, KP and 2018 draftee could be a really good look looking forward..

I guess with KP injury our situation became more simple, so you can talking him into a "recovery season" and extend him looking forward as a young promising team..

You can also sign someone like Hezonja who seems to be about to break out and solidify your starting line up right away..


If KP is going to miss a significant portion of 2018-19, then there is a possibility that the front office could ask him to sit or limit his participation if the team is in a bad position as he gets near to his return. No point in risking re-injury if the team is doing poor and that's without considering boosting our win column and worsening the odds of a top pick.

The draft should be about drafting the best player available. I see a top seven in this year's draft: Ayton, Jackson, Porter, Bagley, Doncic, Young, and Bamba. I don't see a lock for the top pick or a definitive top five. I have seen some mocks where Young and Bamba are outside the top five, and in others they are in the top five with say Porter and Jackson outside the top five. So it is going to be interesting to see how things develop and whether a lock for the top pick emerges and/or players start to clearly separate themselves from others and form a top three or five. But as things stand if we end up with the 9th or 10th pick, i think we'll be looking at choosing from: Wendell Carter (PF/C), Kevin Knox (SF/PF), Mikal Bridges (SG/SF), and Miles Bridges (SF/PF). There is a good chance that Collin Sexton and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander are considered lottery picks, but frankly I wouldn't want either of them because we already have a logjam at the PG position and neither of the are clear upgrades over our existing players, however I would consider Trae Young if he fell. So currently I'd say I am warming to the idea of drafting Kevin Knox, I like his upside, he's athletic and got good size, and has a lot of potential if he can get consistent. There are better defensive options available, and possibly better three point shooters as well, but at the minute I do like Knox and his potential fit with us.

As for Hezonja, he is a possibility but his best production this season during his breakout has come at PF. He is not a particularly physical player so there is a good chance he could struggle against certain PFs on the defensive end, and that is the end he is pretty lackluster at even when he logs time at SF and SG. There is no doubt in my mind that he can shoot the ball well and score (he showed that against us last night), but there is a question mark next to his name when it comes to his best position. If his best position is PF because that allows him to make best use of his offensive skill set, then we would need to make sure that we surround him with players that can compensate for his shortcomings on the defensive end. Otherwise we will have a liability on our hands and any offensive production we do get out of him could see us lose on the defensive end, and if you take the +/- stat into consideration, last night he posted a -13 rating despite scoring 15 points. This is something he's had an issue with this season despite breaking out, in that he often negative ratings, which puts him in that Kanter category.
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby NYGM » February 23, 2018, 10:42 pm

What i'm talking about with KP is some people arguing about him refusing the extension because we are not a playoff team.. If he's recovering we can talking him into a longer picture and taking his time to get 100%..

That means taking it slowly and allowing us to mature the team properly..

Hezonja at 6'8 should be able to play SF, if he can't then we need to pass IMO..
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Re: The talent acquisition phase

Postby gradyandrew » February 24, 2018, 11:11 am

NYGM wrote:What i'm talking about with KP is some people arguing about him refusing the extension because we are not a playoff team.. If he's recovering we can talking him into a longer picture and taking his to me to get 100%..

That means taking it slowly and allowing us to mature the team properly..

Hezonja at 6'8 should be able to play SF, if he can't then we need to pass IMO..


Can KP even refuse though? Won't we have the right to match whatever he gets offered? I still think being a star in New York means something. KAT is the superior player but I'd guess that KP sells about 10x as many jerseys.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
Management didn't get that memo.
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