Knicks 2017 Free Agency: NYK starts overpaying busters instead

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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby gradyandrew » April 20, 2017, 1:35 pm

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/new-york-knicks-team-salary/

Basketball insiders has a great page on the Knicks salary, draft picks and cap holds.

A few things stood out.
Most of our young talent has cheap deals running until 2018-19.
We have a bunch of extra second rounders in the next three seasons (5 total)
Knicks will owe Anthony, Noah, Lee, and Thomas 65 million in 2018-19.

Take the best player available in the draft withthe lottery pick. Pick up one guy who can contribute immediately in the second round and swing for the fences on the extra pick.

I think the biggest issue has been continuity sothe first order of business should be picking up N Dour and Randles contract and extending a qualifying offer to Baker. Renounce Rose.

Call everyone in the league to move Lee, Noah, Thomas, and Melo All of those guys should have some value to the right team. Our aim should be expirings and young guys or draft picks. Don'tpick up any long term salary. We'll want to sign guys in 2018-19, the year before kp and willy hit free agency.

I'm not saying we should tank next season, but getting another lottery pick wouldn't be the worst thing.
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby H20Knick » April 20, 2017, 3:08 pm

gradyandrew wrote:http://www.basketballinsiders.com/new-york-knicks-team-salary/

Basketball insiders has a great page on the Knicks salary, draft picks and cap holds.

A few things stood out.
Most of our young talent has cheap deals running until 2018-19.
We have a bunch of extra second rounders in the next three seasons (5 total)
Knicks will owe Anthony, Noah, Lee, and Thomas 65 million in 2018-19.

Take the best player available in the draft withthe lottery pick. Pick up one guy who can contribute immediately in the second round and swing for the fences on the extra pick.

I think the biggest issue has been continuity sothe first order of business should be picking up N Dour and Randles contract and extending a qualifying offer to Baker. Renounce Rose.

Call everyone in the league to move Lee, Noah, Thomas, and Melo All of those guys should have some value to the right team. Our aim should be expirings and young guys or draft picks. Don'tpick up any long term salary. We'll want to sign guys in 2018-19, the year before kp and willy hit free agency.

I'm not saying we should tank next season, but getting another lottery pick wouldn't be the worst thing.
.

We've said in another thread, the time to get free agents is this year and next year. You have to do it by summer 2018. That gives you two summers to work with. After that, you're staring down the barrel of matching KP's max offer. You want to be loaded by then so that you're already over the cap when that time comes. We can be over the cap and resign KP/Willy. We can't be over the cap because we signed KP and then try to go get bigtime players. You have to strike right now. Which means you need to gamble on young talent with a tolerable floor and a really high ceiling.
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby gradyandrew » April 20, 2017, 7:20 pm

But until we unload those 4 contracts, we're limited in the amount of players we can attract. priority one this summer should be getting cap space.
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby big_j_NY » April 20, 2017, 8:00 pm

gradyandrew wrote:But until we unload those 4 contracts, we're limited in the amount of players we can attract. priority one this summer should be getting cap space.


We also need to meet a salary "floor" (minimum salary amount all teams must maintain before entering the regular season) of about $85M, which those 4 contracts combined DO NOT meet even if we unload them.

So even if we remove Carmelo, we do need to use some of that money on someone in order to keep that minimum $85M of salary to enter next season.

Which is why most of us are proposing going after young, restricted free agents.
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby lxn_ » April 20, 2017, 9:32 pm

really impressed with otto's progress the past 2 years. I thought he was a bust in his first 2 year. Hes a pretty good defender and a great 3 point shooter. He can be the 3d guy for the future. my backup suggestion though if he isnt available would be Nerlens Noel and Jamychal green of memphis I suggest you watch this dude, can also be that 3d guy but a bit older than otto already at 26
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby n8 the gr8 » April 20, 2017, 11:30 pm

H20Knick wrote:We've said in another thread, the time to get free agents is this year and next year. You have to do it by summer 2018. That gives you two summers to work with. After that, you're staring down the barrel of matching KP's max offer. You want to be loaded by then so that you're already over the cap when that time comes. We can be over the cap and resign KP/Willy. We can't be over the cap because we signed KP and then try to go get bigtime players. You have to strike right now. Which means you need to gamble on young talent with a tolerable floor and a really high ceiling.

I see your logic for sure but it's not the only strategy. If there are guys that you like a lot then sign them (I like Porter so I'm ok with it) but you can't just sign talent, even if it's young, if you don't think it's the right fit for what you're doing. There's nothing wrong with going into the summer of 2020 with KP on year 2 of a max deal, Hernangomez on year 1 of his deal; Noah, Lee and Thomas coming off the books for 40 million, plus our 2017, 18 and 19 draft picks (say 15-20 million depending on where we draft, more if some second round picks pan out). If the cap is 120 million you might be looking at 30 (25%) for KP, 15 for Willy, 20 for our lottery picks and a couple of projects that end up sticking around, that's 65 million with 55 million in cap space on a team that would hopefully look promising so it's not a team that's not necessarily going to overpay.

So I guess my counter is that
1. flexibility is important, it allows you to take BPA in lottery scenarios more often and you can better fill holes in free agency when you turn it up and decide it's time to win now
2. I really want to get high lottery picks the next couple years; is signing borderline-max guys that are going to have the team win 5-10 more games the next couple of years a smart decision? You've got to answer it on a case-by-case basis, the dropoff in talent that a few games make when it's time to draft can be huge.

What you say is a valid strategy but there are reasons not to do it, you've got to be ready to pass on a talented young free agent when you're rebuilding though even if they look nice.
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby gradyandrew » April 20, 2017, 11:35 pm

@big j ,
If you're under the cap, I think the team just has to give out the cap differences as a bonus to the players on the roster, so not a big deal.
My point is that there is no reason to sign free agents until the year before KP s contract kicks in (next summer). It makes sense for us to sign the most and best talent then, not having our money tied up with the over 30 crowd. The time is now to use our cap space to get out of those deals if possible.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby Mr3037 » April 20, 2017, 11:50 pm

I just pray that Phil realises just where we are at.

I hope he doesnt have some idea where keeping Melo and overpaying someone to replace Rose isnt the way to go.
We need to go with youth, I mean shit over the last 20 years we've tried everything else!
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby Geolink » April 20, 2017, 11:54 pm

I think I'll vomit if I see N'Dour in a Knicks uniform next year.

I hate his fucking guts... Yes, I'm still mad about winning that last game. Same goes to Holliday to a lesser extent. With his inconsistent self.
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby Mr3037 » April 20, 2017, 11:58 pm

Hardaway Jr & Ndour - Draft Pick Killers
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby gradyandrew » April 21, 2017, 12:25 am

Geolink wrote:I think I'll vomit if I see N'Dour in a Knicks uniform next year.

I hate his fucking guts.. Yes, I'm still mad about winning that last game. Same goes to Holliday to a lesser extent. With his inconsistent self.


Funny. Can't hate on the players for trying to win it. In the western conference Ndour is a center, but there's no way to play him there with kp, willy, Noah, Koq in front of him.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby gradyandrew » April 21, 2017, 1:10 am

I think Boston might be a good trade candidate. They're pretty much set across the rotation except at center. They've been exposed as a poor rebounding team. With Johnson, Jerebko and possibly Zeller (8 million non guarenteed) set to enter free agency, they have a lot of questions if they want to continue their success.
Boston has big money committed to Horford and will have to pay big contracts to Thomas and Bradley next season. I think the Celtics would look at a package built around Noah and KOQ. The two of them would provide reliable minutes at a good price. The main goal for the Knicks would be to move on from Noahs contract and open up space next summer.
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby Geolink » April 21, 2017, 3:33 am

gradyandrew wrote:
Funny. Can't hate on the players for trying to win it. In the western conference Ndour is a center, but there's no way to play him there with kp, willy, Noah, Koq in front of him.

Can't hate my ass! I can hate all I want.

He's a fucking bum! :hammer:
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby Rusty La Rue » April 21, 2017, 4:03 am

No one would want Noah except if we take a even worse contract back (if such a contract exists) or add a really talentet player or draft picks with him.

You mention that Noah and KOQ would provide reliable minutes... There is nothing reliable with Noah these days so no way Celtics except such a deal. I believe the only way we can get rid of Noah contract before his final year is if he accepts to retire...
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby nazrmohamed » April 21, 2017, 6:21 am

The only reason that we should care to have cap space is so that we can use it to take on another teams contact in exchange for draft picks. We should be selling space itself. The 76rs do it every single year.
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby H20Knick » April 21, 2017, 12:00 pm

n8 the gr8 wrote:So I guess my counter is that
1. flexibility is important, it allows you to take BPA in lottery scenarios more often and you can better fill holes in free agency when you turn it up and decide it's time to win now
2. I really want to get high lottery picks the next couple years; is signing borderline-max guys that are going to have the team win 5-10 more games the next couple of years a smart decision? You've got to answer it on a case-by-case basis, the dropoff in talent that a few games make when it's time to draft can be huge.

What you say is a valid strategy but there are reasons not to do it, you've got to be ready to pass on a talented young free agent when you're rebuilding though even if they look nice.


Excellent points as usual N8. I have to agree with you. I, too, want to see us keep losing next year. A top 5 pick next year means more to me than any FA we could get this summer, and unlike a lot of people on this board, I think we have the suck to make it happen. We just need to trade Melo for young prospects and picks and let Rose walk.
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby Koopa Troopa » April 21, 2017, 5:05 pm

H20Knick wrote:
Excellent points as usual N8. I have to agree with you. I, too, want to see us keep losing next year. A top 5 pick next year means more to me than any FA we could get this summer, and unlike a lot of people on this board, I think we have the suck to make it happen. We just need to trade Melo for young prospects and picks and let Rose walk.



That sounds like a fairy tale though. How do you trade Melo for young players and picks? How many young players does it take to match Melo's salary?....and why would any team do that?
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby cragganmor » April 22, 2017, 11:05 am

melo has value to a team struggling to move deep into the playoffs. the difficulty of the celts, plus their list of salary cap holds that they can renounce make them a possibility. melo might force a trade to the clips, but i just don't see how it would work, cap and talent wise. if they don't win it, then the cavs might be a destination, but melo's trade kicker could be a hinderance and we probably need a 3rd team to make it all work.

the celts are the obvious best fit for us since they will probably have the top pick this summer, but a lot has to fall into place between now and draft night.
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby gradyandrew » April 22, 2017, 12:00 pm

I just don't see a Melo trade to Boston. How do thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Melo and Horford get a rebound in the playoffs?
It’s not the frustration of the fans of us losing, they want to see the dog, they want to see that fight, they want to see that hunger inside of you. - THJ
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Re: Knicks 2017 Free Agency

Postby cragganmor » April 22, 2017, 3:14 pm

right now, they have a different problem in the postseason; when teams know how to swarm thomas, they greatly reduce his effectiveness because they just have to stop him, not really worrying about the rest of the squad. when they are hitting the 3 as a team, it masks a lot of deficiencies that are revealed in the slower pace of the postseason.

melo at the 4 would create matchup problems for other teams and i think he'll be motivated to elevate his defense, rebounding and passing on a winning team. it would open up scoring ops for his teammates as well.

like anything rebounding is a team activity, guys have to crash the glass, secure the ball instead of leaking out in transition.
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