Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby H20Knick » February 16, 2017, 9:03 pm

KnicksFanInSouthFL wrote:
[quote-="shakespeare"]Parting shot:

Kevin Love is injured.

The Eastern Conference has to replace him.

If it came down to Melo or KP to replace Kevin Love, who, in all honesty, deserves that All-Star spot this season?

Checkmate.[-/quote]

Checkmate....


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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby KnicksFanInSouthFL » February 17, 2017, 12:21 pm

I think all of this unwavering support for Putback-P, not holding him accountable for anything he does on the court has contributed to his poor play this season.

The dude comes from Latvia to the number one market in professional sports (the major reason why he's so overrated), gifted with a ton of endorsements, and is constantly praised despite not doing a damn thing for the Knicks. Who haven't made any real progress since his arrival... Meanwhile, both Melo and Rose are under siege from the fans/media/front office, and are constantly thrown under the bus. But not Putback-P, he manages to dance his way through all of the bullshyt completely unscathed and escape ALL of the criticism because it's only his second season, progress be damned...

Il Mago > Putback-P... Or at least he was better in the post and off the dribble. Basically the overall more skilled player but he couldn't get any love from y'all.

Go figure... 8-)
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby Red » February 17, 2017, 12:51 pm

Kfisf in a roundabout way the thread should be called Reasons to DISLIKE tanking for a draft pick... no?

That's what happened and what KP is. A player acquired via the draft after a team Instituted a rather lose than win strategy.

Again I ask rhetorically how's that working out? Odds and recent history says:

1. You won't get the draft position hoped for even after "tanking"

2. You won't get the player coveted even after "tanking"

The most recent product of that strategy KP isn't and probably won't be the franchise changing player as hoped for. He's not an all nba 1st team type of player and isn't the answer #kanyeezy. In fact he's becoming more and more expendable rather than invaluable as time progresses.

Is there a lesson to be learned? What I get is if a team is going to go all out and tank it shouldn't be for anyone less than a franchise player. Yeah I'll sacrifice every single non nba 1st teamer (our entire squad including Melo) for one of those and "build from there" before I think about some startegy to acquire a draft pick in hopes of him basically being better than KP is/was.

So I'm with you... KP and everyone else are definitely tradable for the right star to build around imo. That star would be a 2 way player who can create his own shots. And it's prioritizing the star before the complimentary player like KP.
It's a pathetic race at the bottom of the Eastern Conference, and the Knicks are in the middle of it fighting for the chance to get eliminated in the first round.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby shakespeare » February 17, 2017, 1:21 pm

Sigh.

Carmelo averaged 3 turnovers and 2 assists per game in his second year in the league. He shot 43% from the field and 26% from the arc.

Based on certain comments, Denver should've gotten rid of the future of their franchise right then and there.

Oh wait, I know, I know, let's all criticize the 2nd Year player making $4.3 million and praise the two veteran players making $46 million between them. How dare we blame the two worse defenders on the team that also take the most shots.

Blame Porzingis!

Yeah, that's it.

Cause that makes the most sense.

Who cares that he was co-ROY last season and accomplished a feat no rookie in NBA history accomplished.

Sooooo what? He's regressed.

Let's trade Porzingis and sign a REAL franchise player in free agency.

Let's sign Karl Anthony Towns!

Then after we sign him, we can sign either Fultz or Ball or Josh Jackson once they become free agents!

Embrace Free Agency.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby shakespeare » February 17, 2017, 1:45 pm

How dare Knick fans celebrate losses!
How dare Knick fans call for a Tank!
Players should play to win...

Doh.

Maybe if the two highest paid players on the roster that take the most shots played DEFENSE we would win.

I know that particular concept makes absolutely no sense, does it?

I got news for the anti-tank fans...we're not actually tanking.

We're LOSING games. Lol.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby thewatcher » February 17, 2017, 2:04 pm

Getting emotional about a psychological defense mechanism "tankng" in the battered fan is silly isn't it? No-one on the knicks is tanking like shakes said, they're losing, some of us like to find a silver lining, jeez, guys the purpose of the NYKFP is to make friends. :happy:
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby KnicksFanInSouthFL » February 17, 2017, 2:13 pm

Putback-P was the Co-ROTY???

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What kinda Tomfoolery is this? Alternative facts...
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby StevoStarks » February 17, 2017, 3:31 pm

What the fuck are you guys talking about?
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby Red » February 17, 2017, 4:00 pm

By now I think we pretty much know what KP is and what KP isn't.

Stretch 4.

Better than Bargnani.

Complimentary piece.

2nd to 3rd option.

Tall and lanky.

Foul machine.


Carmelo Anthony he is not.

Cornerstone franchise player is not on the list.

Surround him with the LeBron's or all nba 1st teamers of the league... like anyone with a certain skill set and he can thrive. Expect him to carry a franchise and the load? Let's just say any big man who gets pushed around by guards usually isn't that dude. To expect more is pure fandum.

Why can't we accept he's good but not that good like Melo? Not good enough to supplant Melo as a leader and Melo is a b-list star. Just do the math.

If we can use him as an upgrade, do it. If we can upgarde melo and keep KP, no brainer.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby H20Knick » February 17, 2017, 4:17 pm

Ahhhhh it seems my work here is done!
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby taowave » February 17, 2017, 4:33 pm

Dam, the wheels are falling off the KP bus...
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby shakespeare » February 17, 2017, 5:23 pm

thewatcher wrote:like shakes said, they're losing


If you hadn't posted this comment, I would've sworn I'd entered the Twilight Zone. For a minute, everything appeared backward.

It's like, certain Knick fans are mad because THJ won the game that kept us from possibly drafting Towns, yet they oppose tanking?

It's like, they don't believe KP is a cornerstone player yet the current cornerstone player can't even dribble the ball and leading us to the lottery.

It's like they celebrate Melo being named to the All-Star game when we're 23-34 and KP had higher media and player voting numbers while Melo had 3,000 more fan votes. So obviously Melo being chose over KP had absolutely nothing to do with the process that every other All-Star player endured.

It's like Melo's regressed second-year numbers aren't a factor, yet Porzingis regressed numbers are. Lol.

Hilarious.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby shakespeare » February 17, 2017, 5:28 pm

taowave wrote: the wheels are falling off the KP bus...


Cavs, Celtics, and Clippers told Melo we're not giving up anything of value for you...

Think about that for a second.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby shakespeare » February 17, 2017, 5:42 pm

H20Knick wrote:Ahhhhh it seems my work here is done!


You're an excellent debater.

The others, not so much.

So, how can H20 put stock in someone who praises Melo one season (against my arguments) and then disses him the next season (using my same arguments, btw) and then, incredibly, change course again in the middle of the dis season and praise him again?

Now Melo is a cornerstone player when someone was just calling for him to come off the bench, like a week ago. Lol. Like, I know you're better than this H20.

How can you take anyone serious who hypes Phil Jackson as a GM when New York hasn't enjoyed a winning season under his tenure? If Phil Jackson is a losing GM, then what does it matter if Porzingis will be a losing cornerstone player? Y'all don't like "winners" anyway. Lmao.

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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby shakespeare » February 17, 2017, 5:46 pm

StevoStarks wrote:What the fuck are you guys talking about?


Carmelo Anthony: Way Overrated https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatl ... le/361528/

Across his career in New York, Anthony has posted an effective field goal percentage of 0.495 (slightly below average mark) and a True Shooting Percentage of 0.554 (slightly above average mark).


Stevo, I know you're credible. Read this article and, if I'm wrong about anything I've ever said about Melo, please show me the lie. If Melo has a below average mark and a slightly above average mark and a worse than average defender, then what type of player has Melo been in New York?

Honestly. What do the numbers show?

They can't handle that Melo was exposed.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby shakespeare » February 17, 2017, 5:57 pm

If Derrick Rose plays horrible defense...

If Derrick Rose only averages over 20ppg because he takes enough shots to average as much -- even though his shooting percentages are average, at best...

If Derrick Rose doesn't create scoring opportunities for his teammates (pass the ball, basically)...

Then does that make Rose a cornerstone player?

If Derrick Rose career playoff average is 41%, and he takes the majority of the shots, and doesn't create scoring opportunities for teammates...

Then does that make Derrick Rose a cornerstone player?

No.

Cause if it did, then we'd have two cornerstone players (I just gave you Carmelo Anthony as well)in the starting lineup of a team that's 23-34.

Numbers don't lie.

These are the Knicks two highest paid players.
Compare their numbers to the numbers of the playoff teams two highest paid players.

Again, numbers don't lie. If your highest paid players are average/below average, then most likely you're Team
is gonna be average/below average.

Show me the lie.
Last edited by shakespeare on February 17, 2017, 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby Koopa Troopa » February 17, 2017, 6:00 pm

Forgot where the quote is from, think I heard Durant saying some legend told him this

You're never as bad as they say you are, and you're never as good as you think you are.

Melo isnt a top tier player, but these advanced stats dont really prove anything. I'm sure Allen Iverson's advanced stats would make him look like a bum, but hes a legend and of the greatest to ever play the game. :thumbsup:

I think we can all agree that Melo as THE GUY isnt the way to win, but if he is part of a dynamic duo, or a Robin to someones Batman he would be just fine. Hes never had that. He never had a Westbrook or a Kyrie Irving or a D Wade etc etc. Hes not as good as Tmac or Kobe, or Bron or Durant but all this media scrutiny would make you think hes a loser. If he sucks so much how did he make it to the western conference finals? :?
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby shakespeare » February 17, 2017, 6:11 pm

Koopa Troopa wrote:
Melo isnt a top tier player, but these advanced stats dont really prove anything.

If he sucks so much how did he make it to the western conference finals?


Numbers don't lie.

These are his numbers in New York, not Denver. He's not the same player that he was in Denver.

I've been saying this for years.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby Red » February 17, 2017, 6:30 pm

Melo is a cornerstone player because teams made him a cornerstone player. He's a hof'er, a prolific scorer, and "thought of as a franchise player" yet with this said he still isn't good enough. He's still a level below the real all nba players thats why he isn't a 1st team all nba player.

KP isn't even on that level (yet). He's nowhere near that level. To think he can hold it down as if he is is preposterous.

Melo isn't becoming that dude either no time soon sorry. He's good but not that good as is KP. Simple.

Phil Jackson’s rating was given after his offseasons and for his moves the consensus was he earned a passing grade. As is the case with Melo and KP he's good but not that good and nothing is wrong with that.

Again Phil's job has been done. Because the team has underachieved has nothing to do with Phil. Every player he released was replaced with an upgrade (on paper).


Attacking Phil is meaningless and seems a bit spoiled as if we've had so much better and Phil was a downgrade.

Please. The past is the past. Both then and now we aren't achieving the desired results but dor some reason the bar is set higher. Classic Knick fans and their expectations.

Every prospect is overvalued. Every move scrutinized and compared as if we were this great franchise. We tried with Melo is didnt work. There is no blame to go around just reasonable observations that Melo didn't pan out and isnt that dude. Now the overzealous expectations are on KP except those who know know he isn't showing the penchant (ala KAT) for being that dude. We know because we've been over expecting on a player (Melo) who isn't that dude.

No blame just is what it is.

Bottom line... no all nba 1st teamers no real contender. Like it or not both Melo and KP aren't that. If they need to be sacrificed for that then I'm all for it. Or we could try and get another hodge podge mixture of Tyson Chandlers and Ray Feltons so we could over expect and be disappointed.

Look at the rosters of the real contenders. They're full of all nba players, #1 draft picks, and luck. If we have to assets to acquire one we get them period. No crying tears because Melo and KP didn't work out.

No blaming Phil for trying. Man the fuck up. Get the upgrade and go from there. Excuses and blame won't help. Neither will analysis of years past. It's time we got real and see our players for who they are and aren't. If somehow we can swing a real top player and keep KP that's cool but we know what it's going to take. And if Phil pulls that off he again would be successful underachieving results or not.
It's a pathetic race at the bottom of the Eastern Conference, and the Knicks are in the middle of it fighting for the chance to get eliminated in the first round.
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Re: Reasons to DISLIKE Porzingis...

Postby taowave » February 17, 2017, 6:57 pm

You guys are all over the place..

Is the consensus we move Melo at all costs?
I think an injured Love is as good as it gets pre deadline?

Move Rose if possible for a protected pick which will be next to impossible? Definetly do not resign him?

Would anyone move Willie for a pick if we land Love?

Kp is a 4 and in no way a 5? And if we land Love, move him or keep him?
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